I HATE THIS WEB SITE.

[rckllnknny]

yeah people get shot in real life..
so we should all argue on a website..
amen.




???

[Myles Domini]

I dont think its that bad. In fact I sorta miss the controversy that used to go on in the Debate Table. You had guys like Don John of Austria pulling out some real historical facts to back up what they were saying. It was interesting, enlightening in many places. Now, most of the 'debates' seem to be focussed around sex or sexually related issues. Not that these things aren't important but they are set in stone according to Catholic teaching and won't change. To have multiple threads with varying titles that are basically focussing upon the same thing e.g. homosexual [i]unions[/i] is to me a waste.

Yet not everyone is squabbling over silly issues and not everything here is dominated by hateful polemic. A lot of the topics raised highlight people's genuine concerns about issues that they care about and want to have resolved or reviewed. A lot of the times people's considerations are really the kind of issues theologians are currenty debating e.g. the ordination of married men and lots of the issues appearing on Phatmass currently were also discussed by the Bishops of the Roman Synod in October, which shows we're not just babbling in isolation.

I saw your post on the firing of the teacher and that you disagreed with it. I feel very sorry for her, my Mum wasn't married when she had me and she and my Father have never been together. Its not always been easy--it still isnt--but the pain caused by the consequences of sin cant act an excuse for it and as the child of a single-parent I have every right to say this. I do feel terribly sorry for both her and her baby and I think if she has expressed repentence and was still fired that the school could've reconsidered a little. Maybe moved her to teach a different age group who can understand that even the just man falls 7 times daily (Prov. 24:16). However, if thats impossible and she is obstinate then the school truly had no choice given the impressionable youth under her care.

Arguably a little of the devotional side of phatmass is being neglected at the moment. Maybe we need to have a devotional board where we can speak solely about our spiritual lives and experiences? But at the same time I do think a lot of devotion is coming out in the passion that many of the phatpham show for what they feel is right. I dont think its just blind anger motivating much of the zeal shown in argument around here. I believe its genuine and loving concern for the Church through which the Holy Trinity has taught and nurtured us. Reading some of St Jerome's letters one would get the impression that he was nothing but a bitter arrogant individual. Yet, does that really encapsulate the spirituality of Jerome? I think you would want us to show clemency towards the young fired teacher? Should you not then offer the same clemency towards the phatmassers?

Catholicism may be a unified system of belief but there are bound to be disagreements about things that are not dogmatically defined or held in doctrine by the ordinary magisterium. For centuries the Dominican and Franciscan scholars berated each other in the schools of Europe and when the Franciscans dropped the banner the Jesuits took it up. Even today the neo-Thomists and Balthasarians eye each other with suspicion. Argument in the history of Catholicism is commonplace and indeed it is a good thing because as St Thomas Aquinas taught nobody looses out from argument because arguments often result in a clearer exposition of the truth.

It is also logical to think that we as Catholics would argue with Protestants seeing as we have fundamentally differing views on what Christianity means. Yet, that doesn't equate to hate. Do not judge fierceness in reply to mean hate. Many of the great saints of the past lovers that they were were vicious in controversy e.g. St Augustine. Again one cannot judge the heart of Augustine solely on his controversial works.

I agree with you some opinions are dead ends but some are not. I personally believe the priest should face eschatological East e.g. with his back to the people at Mass. Moreover, I do not think this is a petty argument and evidently neither do many credible scholars such as the now deceased Msgr Klaus Gamber, Fr Aidan Nichols OP and the current Pontiff, Benedict XVI, who wrote on the subject numerous times as Cardinal Ratzinger. In addition I believe this out of genuine concern and love for the sacramental nature of the Eucharist. Its not merely a question of asserting my rightness at the expense of others but arises out of a heart, which though full of sin, has seen enough of Our Lord in the Eucharist to want to him to have the whole focus of everyone in gratitude.

Its not cos we dont care that we fight but cos we do.

INXC
Myles

[rckllnknny]

[quote name='Myles' date='Nov 22 2005, 02:30 PM']I dont think its that bad. In fact I sorta miss the controversy what they were saying. It was interesting, enlightening in many places. Now, most of the 'debates' seem to be focussed around sex or sexually related ihave multiple threads with varying titles that are basically focussing upon the same thing e.g. homosexual [i]unions[/i] is to me a waste.

Yet not everyone is squabbling over silly issues and not everything here is dominated by hateful polemic. A lot of the topics ra times people's considerationse concerns about issues that they care about and want to have rehave multiple threads with varying titles that are basically focussing upon the same thing e.g. homosexual [i]unions[/i] is to me a waste.

Yet not everyone is squabbling over silly issues and not everything here is dominated by hateful polemic. A lot of the topics raised highlight people's genuine concerns about issues that they care about and want to have resolved or reviewed. A lot of the times people's considerations are really the kind of issues theologians are currenty debating e.g. the ordination of married men and lots of the issues appearing on Phatmass currently were also discussed by the Bishops of the Roman Synod in October, which shows we're not just babbling in isolation.

I saw your post on the firing of the teacher and that you disagreed with it.  I feel very sorry for her, my Mum wasn't married when she had me and she and my Father have never been together. Its not always been easy--it still isnt--but the pain caused by the consequences of sin cant act an excuse for it and as the child of a single-parent I have every right to say this. I do feel terribly sorry for both her and her baby and I think if she has expressed repentence and was still fired that the school could've reconsidered a little. Maybwever, if thats impossible and age group who can understand thl truly had no choice given the es daily (Prov. 24:16). However, if thats impossible and she is obstinate then the school truly had no choice given the impressionable youth under her care.

Arguably a little of the devotional side of phatmass is being neglected at the moment. Maybe we need to have a devotional board where we can speak solely about our spiritual lives and experiences? But at the same time I d






o think a lot of devotion is coming out in the passion that many of the phatpham show for what they feel is right. I dont think its just blind anger motivating much of the zeal shown in argument around here. I believe its genuine and loving concern for the Church through which the Holy Trinity has taught and nurtured us. Reading some of St Jerome's letterAMxne would get the impression that he was nothing but a bitter arrogant individual. Yet, does that really encapsulate the spirituality of Jerome? I think you would want us to show clemency towards the young fired teacher? Should you not then offer the same clemency towards the phatmassers?

Catholicism may be a unified system of belief but there are bound to be disagreements about things that are not dogmatically defined or held in doctrine by the ordinary magisterium. For centuries the Dominican and Franciscan scholars berated each other in the schools of Europe and when the Franciscans dropped the banner the Jesuits took it up. Even today the neo-Thomists and Balthasarians eye each other with suspicion. Argument in the history of Catholicism is commonplace and indeed it is a good thing because as St Thomas Aquinas taught nobody looses out from argument because arguments often result in a clearer exposition of the truth.

It is also logical to think that we as Catholics would argue with Protestants seeing as we have fundamentally differing views on what Christianity means. Yet, that doesn't equate to hate. Do not judge fierceness in reply to mean hate. Many of the great saints of the past lovers that they were were vicious in controversy e.g. St Augustine. Again one cannot judge the heart of Augustine solely on his controversial works.

I agree with you some opinions are dead ends but some are not. I personally believe the priest should face eschatological East e.g. with his back to the people at Mass. Moreover, I do not think this is a petty argument and evidently neither do many credible scholars such as the now deceased Msgr Klaus Gamber, Fr Aidan Nichols OP and the current Pontiff%ern and love for the sacramentalthe subject numerous times as Cardinal Ratzinger. In addition I believe this out of genuine concern and love for the sacramental nature of the Eucharist. Its not merely a question of asserting my rightness at the expense of others but arises out of a heart, which though full of sin, has seen enough of Our Lord in the Eucharist to want to him to have the whole focus of everyone in gratitude.

Its not cos we dont care that we fight but cos we do.

INXC
Myles
[right][snapback]797911[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


that was a perfect example of disagreeing respectfully.
thank you.

[sweetpea316]

I respect that. You're cool in my book.

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

just wanted to share this because it really inspired me and led me back to Rome:
[quote]We are of God. He that knoweth God, heareth us. He that is not of God, heareth us not. By this we know the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 7 Dearly beloved, let us love one another, for charity is of God. And every one that loveth, is born of God, and knoweth God. 8 He that loveth not, knoweth not God: for God is charity.[/quote]

[cmotherofpirl]

Rick I hate to tell you, but the boards haven't changed much , in fact I would say if anything people are politer than they used to be.
Have you forgotten the back alley?

[Era Might]

[quote]Probably all the other Families will line up against us. That's alright -- this thing's gotta happen every five years or so -- ten years -- helps to get rid of the bad blood. Been ten years since the last one. You know you got to stop them at the beginning, like they should have stopped Hitler at Munich, They should never've let him get away with that.

--Clemenza in "The Godfather"[/quote]

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='rckllnknny' date='Nov 22 2005, 02:07 PM']photo....so youre disagreeing with me for saying we should all get along?
that doesnt make any sense.

GOD BLESS..um out.
[right][snapback]797890[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Well, yes, I am disagreeing with you. Disagreement and argument can be very healthy! Proverbs 27:17 says, "As iron sharpens iron, so man sharpens his fellow man." St. Josemaria once wrote, "Peace is something closely related to war. Peace is a consequence of victory. Peace demands of me a continual struggle. Without a struggle I will never have peace." Conflict can be enlightening sometimes.

St. Paul, in his epistles, urged Christian believers to be united. And as Catholics, we have a special form of unity--in our liturgy, in the Eucharist, and in our faith. The Church has been blessed with the gift of the Papacy...as the Pope is the symbol of our unity of faith. The magesterium (the teaching authority of the Church), along with the scriptures to help us to know what is true. However, not everyone believes the Truth, and there are people out there calling themselves Christians who are in error. When I am right, why should I agree with someone who is in error? And when I am wrong, would I want to remain in ignorance forever? Of course not. Sometimes, when a man 'sharpens' another man, it can hurt, but it is better to be sharp than to be dull.

[Myles Domini]

[quote]that was a perfect example of disagreeing respectfully.
thank you.
[/quote]

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Nov 22 2005, 04:18 PM'][quote] Probably all the other Families will line up against us. That's alright -- this thing's gotta happen every five years or so -- ten years -- helps to get rid of the bad blood. Been ten years since the last one. You know you got to stop them at the beginning, like they should have stopped Hitler at Munich, They should never've let him get away with that.

--Clemenza in "The Godfather"[/quote]


[right][snapback]797985[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

"Leave the gun. Take the cannolis."

--another Clemenza quote (although it's after having someone killed)

[Ash Wednesday]

I think much of the changes come because the site expanded with more members. Bigger sites bring in a more diverse group of people (and the disagreements that come with that). Maybe that's why it might seem like it's not the same smaller tight knit group it was before. I think despite the growth, the site still has tight knit groups and its original flavor, however.

I liked the Old School phatmass, but I like phatmass living large, too. It's a strong force for the Church.

[Era Might]

[quote]"Leave the gun.  Take the cannolis."[/quote]

Edited November 23, 2005 by Era Might

[Sinner]

peace......

[Carrie]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 22 2005, 06:13 PM']Rick I hate to tell you, but the boards haven't changed much , in fact I would say if anything people are politer than they used to be.
Have you forgotten the back alley?
[right][snapback]797977[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Who could forget the back alley?

[homeschoolmom]

Not me...