seven deadly sins

[dairygirl4u2c]

I think to say that the seven deadly sins are wrong is simplistic thinking.

Here's the seven deadly sins with their counterpart virtues:
Pride/Humility, Envy/Love, Wrath/Anger, Anger/Kindness, Lust/Self control, Gluttony/Faith and Temperance, Sloth/Zeal

I say all of the sins could easily be virtues and all of the virtues could easily be sins. Jesus had anger at the tax collectors. God doesn't love sin. It's good to be proud when you win a race or at least when your friend does.

Now, if the vices are by definition wrong, such as gluttony is by definition eating too much, then I stand corrected. Some of the vices mentioned might fall in that category. But the ones that don't I would be careful about labeling.

Furthermore, I think our language barrier has caused this oversimplication regardless of if it's warranted by being "by definition bad" to cause undue harm. This is because we have no words to describe the vices when they are good, only when they are bad. They have to be explained as good, otherwise they're considered bad. This simplification causes society to fear being proud of accomplishing good things, or turning over the table like Jesus did.

I'd like to think everyone here agrees with my assessment just given. Ideas to the contrary are welcome. spanx,

[cmotherofpirl]

Have you read C S Lewis's discussion of these sins in Mere Christianity?

[zunshynn]

[quote]Here's the seven deadly sins with their counterpart virtues:
Pride/Humility, Envy/Love, Wrath/Anger, Anger/Kindness, Lust/Self control, Gluttony/Faith and Temperance, Sloth/Zeal

I say all of the sins could easily be virtues and all of the virtues could easily be sins. Jesus had anger at the tax collectors. God doesn't love sin. It's good to be proud when you win a race or at least when your friend does. [/quote]

Yeah... I definitely see how it can be a sin to be kind and humble and with self-control.... or not? Care to expand on that?

[Cam42]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Nov 21 2005, 06:30 PM']I think to say that the seven deadly sins are wrong is simplistic thinking.

Here's the seven deadly sins with their counterpart virtues:
Pride/Humility, Envy/Love, Wrath/Anger, Anger/Kindness, Lust/Self control, Gluttony/Faith and Temperance, Sloth/Zeal

I say all of the sins could easily be virtues and all of the virtues could easily be sins. Jesus had anger at the tax collectors. God doesn't love sin. It's good to be proud when you win a race or at least when your friend does.

Now, if the vices are by definition wrong, such as gluttony is by definition eating too much, then I stand corrected. Some of the vices mentioned might fall in that category. But the ones that don't I would be careful about labeling.

Furthermore, I think our language barrier has caused this oversimplication regardless of if it's warranted by being "by definition bad" to cause undue harm. This is because we have no words to describe the vices when they are good, only when they are bad. They have to be explained as good, otherwise they're considered bad. This simplification causes society to fear being proud of accomplishing good things, or turning over the table like Jesus did.

I'd like to think everyone here agrees with my assessment just given. Ideas to the contrary are welcome. spanx,
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Would you care to explain how envy, wrath, lust, sloth, gluttony and pride can be seen as being virtuous?

I excluded anger, because when anger is justified, it is not necessarily sinful.

If we are going to have this conversation, you need to define your position. Unlike your polls, you can't just throw it out there and expect us to figure out what is going on in your head. So, with that being said, I would like to see where you are going with this line of reason. I think that you are going to find it hard to define those terms as virtuous.

Once you let us know your position, we can understand your starting point.

[Cam42]

As for pride.....Sirach 10:6-18.

[Guest JeffCR07]

I agree with Cam, and I would even go so far as to say that Anger, properly understood, is also definitionally sinful, because with a proper understanding one will see that anger and righteous indignation are two different things. Righteous indignation attends to Justice, while anger attends to selfishness.

If a person thinks that one of the deadly sins could be a "good" thing, then this is simply indicative of the fact that the person in question does not have the proper understanding of the sins.

[Cam42]

[quote]Here's the seven deadly sins with their counterpart virtues:
Pride/Humility, Envy/Love, Wrath/Anger, Anger/Kindness, Lust/Self control, Gluttony/Faith and Temperance, Sloth/Zeal[/quote]

Capital Virtue/Opposing Sin

humility/pride
liberality/avarice
brotherly love/envy
meekness/wrath
chastity/lust
temperance/gluttony
diligence/sloth

I think that proper listings are appropriate at this point.

That's right folks, LIBERALITY is a capital virtue.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Nov 21 2005, 08:33 PM']Capital Virtue/Opposing Sin
   
humility/pride
liberality/avarice
brotherly love/envy
meekness/wrath
chastity/lust
temperance/gluttony
diligence/sloth

I think that proper listings are appropriate at this point.

That's right folks, LIBERALITY is a capital virtue.
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are you going to define them as well?

Edited November 22, 2005 by cmotherofpirl

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Nov 21 2005, 07:33 PM']That's right folks, LIBERALITY is a capital virtue.
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[MC Just]

being liberal is a capital virtue? ROTFL

[Extra ecclesiam nulla salus]

[quote name='zunshynn' date='Nov 21 2005, 06:44 PM']Yeah... I definitely see how it can be a sin to be kind and humble and with self-control.... or not? Care to expand on that?
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lol


dairygirl might have a tough time with that!

[Cam42]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 21 2005, 07:36 PM']are you going to define them as well?
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Gee, I was waiting on dairy to give her definitons first. That is why I said:

[quote]If we are going to have this conversation, you need to define your position. Unlike your polls, you can't just throw it out there and expect us to figure out what is going on in your head. So, with that being said, I would like to see where you are going with this line of reason. I think that you are going to find it hard to define those terms as virtuous.

Once you let us know your position, we can understand your starting point.[/quote]

[jezic]

um those sins that you mention seem to be the source of all the others. Is that why they are listed as deadly ..... hm.....

[Socrates]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Nov 21 2005, 07:10 PM']Would you care to explain how envy, wrath, lust, sloth, gluttony and pride can be seen as being virtuous?
[/quote]

Welcome to Modern Liberalism in a Nutshell.

[Cam42]

[quote name='MC Just' date='Nov 21 2005, 07:55 PM']being liberal is a capital virtue? ROTFL
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Don't believe me? Liberality is a spirit of generosity for a proper and worthy charity that may involve the donation of our time, our money, or other possessions.

Liberality is completely different from the political philosophy of liberalism. Liberality is personal rather than social, and consistent with a well formed Catholic conscience.

It's a good hook though. It will get people reading the thread.