making everything sinful illegal

[dairygirl4u2c]

If not, please explain.

I assume if so, you'd use the brother keeper arguement, which explained better would say that the brother's are hurting themselves, so you need to ensure they don't.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

All sins? No...it would not be fair to arrest a Jew for not going to Mass on Sunday (which would not be a sin for him). To apply all the rules of the Church to everyone (in the Church or out of it) would be unjust.

However, the natural law should be the source of civil law and civil law should reflect natural law. Natural law is based off divine law, which is the law of God, so it would be wholly consistent with the faith to make the entire civil law based off the natural law, in as much as is possible.

[photosynthesis]

Dairy, I think you're misinterpreting the Catholic Church's teachings on law and morality. The Church doesn't teach that all sins must be banned under the law, but that the law must serve the common good by protecting citizens. It should be based on the law that is written in the hearts of all men.

For example, gossiping is a sin. But it's not a kind of sin that could be reasonably enforced, and there's a difference between gossip, slander and libel. slander and libel are real crimes, whereas gossip is not.

I think there's a difference between criminalizing sin. It makes more sense to me to ban abortion and contraception... because that way people will not fornicate as much because they wouldn't have these things to fall back on.

Catholics also should focus on re-evangelizing the culture. If we lived in a society that was full of orthodoxy and the love of God, there would be no need to ban sins.

[journeyman]

unless and until an individuals actions cause harm to others, government should legislate neither negatively nor positively

as noted above a "sin" is not always a "crime"

there are terms in the law . . . "malum per se" (wrong in itself) and "malum prohibitum" (wrong because it's against the law) . . . the malum per se items tend to track natural law . . . and are frequently the law in many varied cultures and religious societies because all people realize the wrongness

that government governs best which governs least

[Ash Wednesday]

If everything sinful was against the law, I would probably spend my life in jail.

[rkwright]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Nov 20 2005, 06:43 PM']If everything sinful was against the law, I would probably spend my life in jail.
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ha me too... and be in for a long time too...

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='rkwright' date='Nov 20 2005, 07:31 PM']ha me too... and be in for a long time too...
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me three!

[Didacus]

All sins unlawful?

Didn't God already take care of that?

[Proud2BCatholic139]

But, God gave us free will. We have the freedom to choose. I wish it can be that way.

[dairygirl4u2c]

I hope you aren't saying no due to your perceptions if you think that any sin you committed would give you time in jail. It can all be relative to the sin. Minor venial sins would get a ticket or something and more mortal sins would tend toward larger fines and prison time.

I realize I am going to need to start differentiating a lot. Like, you use church law at least as one reason to say no (if not for the reason just mentioned), but there are other things such as gossiping and who knows how many others. They would all need to be categorized for me to ask a new question regarding them. One question would be should all natural laws be made illegal etc and something else to categorize things like hitting your brother when you're a kid, looking at another person lustfully, gossiping, and many more if these aren't considered in the realm of natural law (and obviously not church law).

Edited November 23, 2005 by dairygirl4u2c

[Sirklawd]

This concept upon first glance looks like a shallow attempt at trapping catholics in some sort of belief..um..trap. But im going to assume you actually care to debate this for a moment.

I'm also going to assume you are talking about the Roman Catholic definition of sin.

so anyway this concept of yours destroys why we have freewill. Forcing people to abide the law of God is not what God wants. God wants each of us to abide the laws because we love him.

Additionally, If you take any sort of time to think about why the things that are sin are bad you see that they are clearly damaging and hurtful to yourself and others. they are not the path of love. God isnt trying to resctrict fun, but guide us and warn us of things that could hurt us "dont put finger in socket".

Likewise, we should take the time to guide other people. We also shouldnt want anything to happen to our fellow humans, just as God doesnt want anything to happen to us.

To making sinning against some societal law is useless because it doesnt really change anything except distract from God - the point.

[Ash Wednesday]

There are some things that are sinful that can and will be made illegal. But to be able to enforce laws making everything sinful illegal is like trying to enforce Thought Crime against Big Brother. It would be impossible.

[crusader1234]

No. Not even for Catholics.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Sirklawd' date='Nov 23 2005, 04:36 PM']This concept upon first glance looks like a shallow attempt at trapping catholics in some sort of belief..um..trap.
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amen.

[DancesforLove]

I think yes that if its sinful than it should be illegal. The government should be the parent so to speak for the country. They should try to help guide its children (citizens) in moral decisions. Of course, ultimately it is our decisions but there should be consequences for our actions. We have to use our common sense and moral judgment to make good decisions, no matter what the law. It isn't the governments fault if we make an immoral decision.