Didacus Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 This is a question that I am ill-informed to explain. I don't clearly understand it myself. The main question being; if God is allmighty and pwerful, perfect in every way, how come is it that Saints can intervene to Him on our behalf? How does the mechanics of this work? We pray to win the lottery and the saint says to God "Well Lord, I know you don't want to intervene, but pleeeaaassse let him win?" I know the example is a little silly, but I trust you know what I mean. If God already knows what is best, and He is willing to do it because He loves us, then how is it that council with the Saints might 'change' His divine plan somehow? Any help would be appreciated. I thought of putting this post in the debate phorum because I thought several might have different views and it might start something... maybe not. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick777 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Saints are praying for us, they have special knowledge of what were doing here on earth. Have you ever heard the saying that when a sinner repents all of heaven rejoices. I think you should consult a priest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardella Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 (edited) This is coming from and expanding on an answer I heard on Cathlic Answers Live: God gives us all the graces necessary for salvation. [b]However, sometimes, He allows graces to be granted only in response to prayer.[/b] That does not mean, though, that He will necessarily grant whatever you pray for. For instance, God may provide additional graces to a dying grandmother in response to your prayers for God to heal her or that she might be comforted in her final hour. It holds the same for the saints, but there are several important differences. First, they see God face to face. Second, they have been tried in the fire, and have been perfected by His Grace. So, you ask, why would God attach whether He grants extra graces to your prayers? Well, the short answer is that it also has the side effect of drawing us closer to Him and gives us the chance to voice our trust in Him and His mercy. It also keeps us conscious of our total dependence on His grace and His mercy. Edited November 14, 2005 by scardella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Church Punk Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 I think that one of the reseans the Saints intervene is because they have about them a human touch, they too like us have been sinners, they know what we are going through, we therefore can be drawn to God by their works. When sister Lucia of Fatima described her experiances, she said there was a great differance from when the Angel appeared to her and when Mary appeared. She describs even though Mary was in far greater glory than the Angel, her presences was soothing as a Mother, because of her humaness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted November 15, 2005 Author Share Posted November 15, 2005 So it is a qeustion of God using the Saints as His tools? So to speak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardella Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 St. Maximilian Kolbe described himself as an instrument for Mary's (and, therefore, God's) use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezic Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 wouldn't that relate to how people can pray as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick777 Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 yea it would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardella Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 [quote name='jezic' date='Nov 15 2005, 03:22 PM']wouldn't that relate to how people can pray as well? [right][snapback]790277[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yeah, saints are people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 (edited) Saints are our family in heaven, so we are just asking the phamily for a bit of help. Would your favorite aunt or uncle refuse you a favor? Edited November 17, 2005 by cmotherofpirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Knight Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 The Saints & Angels can pray for those on earth right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted November 17, 2005 Share Posted November 17, 2005 the intercession of the saints does not encroach upon the power and Glory of God. it is b/c of Him that they are saints to begin with, and it is b/c of their being made perfect by Him and b/c of their union with Him that they are able to interceed for us. so, asking the saints for their prayers is an implicit acknowledgment of the work of the Lord in the lives of man and it is thus a way to actually [i]give[/i] glory to God, not take it away from Him. also, we have to remember that, while God can surely do all things by himself (he certainly doesn't [i]need[/i] us in order to effect the world and realize his Will), he has found it praiseworthy to have man share in his work. so, while Jesus Christ is our One Savior, paul speaks often of "saving some." while God is our one Father, paul speaks of being a father to the churches. God is [i]the[/i] creator, but humans share in his act of creation whenever two become one in the act of marriage. in the same way, while Jesus is our "one mediator between God and man" the saints both on earth and in heaven can participate in "subordinate mediation" whenever we pray for any member of the Body of Christ. the word "subordinate" is important here. whenever we participate in the work of the Lord, it is always secondary to to His greater act. especially as far as intercession is concerned, we don't interceed the way Jesus interceeds. i think alot of times when protestants hear about saints "interceeding" they assume that we grant to them a position equal to that of Christ, as if the saints likewise died on the cross for our sin. only Jesus makes the perpetual offering of himself on our behalf. the saints interceed [i]in a different way[/i], by praying to the Lord for us. i hope that helps pax christi, phatcatholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted November 18, 2005 Share Posted November 18, 2005 [quote name='scardella' date='Nov 14 2005, 05:16 PM']This is coming from and expanding on an answer I heard on Cathlic Answers Live: God gives us all the graces necessary for salvation. [b]However, sometimes, He allows graces to be granted only in response to prayer.[/b] That does not mean, though, that He will necessarily grant whatever you pray for. For instance, God may provide additional graces to a dying grandmother in response to your prayers for God to heal her or that she might be comforted in her final hour. It holds the same for the saints, but there are several important differences. First, they see God face to face. Second, they have been tried in the fire, and have been perfected by His Grace. So, you ask, why would God attach whether He grants extra graces to your prayers? Well, the short answer is that it also has the side effect of drawing us closer to Him and gives us the chance to voice our trust in Him and His mercy. It also keeps us conscious of our total dependence on His grace and His mercy. [right][snapback]788902[/snapback][/right] [/quote] [i]Such[/i] an awesome show, y'all! If anyone had any questions on Catholocism, call! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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