Protestantism is Heresy.

[The Joey-O]

It just seems like you guys seem like you don't respect the Protestant theologains and writers enough to pick up their work. Especially in America, there work represent the by far majority of books sold and even discussed at theological seminars. Yet, you guys are, for the most part, ignorant of their stuff. One of the reasons why I became Catholic was because Catholics don't insulate themselves from culture. Yet, you guys insulate yourselves from Protestants?

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 5 2005, 04:08 AM']it can happen in the future, but first we need to respect each other and realise the gifts that both parties bring to the table.
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I think that a merger would actually be disrespectful to both parties.

For Protestants to merge with the Catholic Church, that would be disrespectful to their claims that each individual has the right to interpret the Bible as they want. That would be disrespectful to the "autonomy" that they try to have.

For Catholics to merge with Protestants, that would be disrespectful to our belief that Sacred Tradition was given to us from God to show us what is and isn't true. The Church has the right to say who is and who is not Catholic, and to be more inclusive of "Catholics" or "Christians" who have bought into lies means being accepting of the lies.

[N/A Gone]

in Ut Unum Sint, JPII speaks of how the works in the protestant church has aided and influenced the catholic church.

[jmjtina]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 5 2005, 03:18 AM']in Ut Unum Sint, JPII speaks of how the works in the protestant church has aided and influenced the catholic church.
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Our Late Holy Father, Pope John Paul II in no way has ever elevated it above the Doctors and saints of the Catholic church or put them on the same level. The message is clear, no compromise, but we must work and help each other. there is truth there yes, but no compromise on what we believe.

Edited December 5, 2005 by jmjtina

[The Joey-O]

Protestants aren't protesting anymore. Almost all of them lost the understanding of visible unity 100 years ago. (And they're not consciously rejecting visible unity, either, they just don't get it and probably haven't heard of it). I know I had no concept of it, before going to Bible College (and my Bible College is the most academic Bible College in accredidation through the HSEA (HCEA???)), so I doubt if most Bible College students have ever heard of it.

[The Joey-O]

Oy! Oy! Protestants aren't uniform in their opinions! You can't say things like, it would be "disrespectful to their claims that each individual has the right to interpret the Bible as they want". That's not Protestantism. That's Fundyism. I would have been shot dead before saying something like that.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 5 2005, 04:13 AM']reformation..luther wanted to reform, y'all kicked him out, tried to kill him, it became a social uprising backed by goverments, idiots like calvin showed up and developed a theology that is equal to anarchy. ironically the church reforms many of the things luther had issues with(*cause luther did not want a formal split, as much as a sanctuary until the church reformed and than return) but now we have eccesiologocal differences and dont like each other much.
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you make him out to sound like some sort of holy martyr. Please. The ecclesiological differences exist for a reason. If the Catholic Church didn't excommunicate Luther, then it would have been tolerating heresy and the spread of untruth.

Basically, the Catholic Church tells it like it is. You're either Catholic, or you're not. If you're out there calling yourself Catholic and saying things that are not consistent with Catholic teaching, yes, the Church will denounce you and the things you say. I find nothing wrong with that.

[quote name='The Joey-O' date='Dec 5 2005, 04:14 AM']It just seems like you guys seem like you don't respect the Protestant theologains and writers enough to pick up their work. Especially in America, there work represent the by far majority of books sold and even discussed at theological seminars. Yet, you guys are, for the most part, ignorant of their stuff. One of the reasons why I became Catholic was because Catholics don't insulate themselves from culture. Yet, you guys insulate yourselves from Protestants?
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Don't assume. I used to be on the Executive Board for InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, so I was very well-versed in all the stuff IVPress put out.

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also, the autonomy isnt like you would think. The different denominations develop their own eccesiology, with the exception of the free churches these eccesiologys often follow patern with each other. Most protestants just want biblical justification.

Photo.."merger" or "unity" should be the top priority for every believer because it is what Christ prayed for in the garden and it is the chief concern for paul.

[The Joey-O]

Nobody's "elevating" Protestant theologians above that of the Fathers and the Doctors of the Faith. Unity doesn't mean recreating Catholicism. It doesn't mean going against the established orthodoxy, the faith of the Church. A lot more Protestants would either convert or work toward furthering reunion if they understood Catholicism and stakes at risk for being divided.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='The Joey-O' date='Dec 5 2005, 04:24 AM']Oy! Oy! Protestants aren't uniform in their opinions! You can't say things like, it would be "disrespectful to their claims that each individual has the right to interpret the Bible as they want". That's not Protestantism. That's Fundyism. I would have been shot dead before saying something like that.
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personal interpretation of Scripture goes under Sola Scriptura, which is one of the 3 tenents of Protestant theology.

[jmjtina]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 5 2005, 03:13 AM']reformation..luther wanted to reform, y'all kicked him out, tried to kill him, it became a social uprising backed by goverments, idiots like calvin showed up and developed a theology that is equal to anarchy. ironically the church reforms many of the things luther had issues with(*cause luther did not want a formal split, as much as a sanctuary until the church reformed and than return) but now we have eccesiologocal differences and dont like each other much.

sound good? as a catholic I would protest against what the church was doing than. Conscience and simple reason would still need to be justified
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Not everyone's conscience and simple reason are conformed with the same morality i.e. the Catholic Church. Our faith lies in the Church and that the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it just as Jesus promised. If Luther was right, we're all wrong.

But he was wrong.

The bishops of the time were human, and humans are prone to error, just like luther was. But breaking away from the Church that Christ promised to protect and guide is not the answer.

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holy martyr? woah...settle please.

All I am saying is that the split was not all his fault "we" need to take some responsability also. Luther didnt want split. He wanted praxi changes, less focus on remidal indlugences and a biblical justification for the doctrines.

woah, look...all those things happened. the eccesiological differences didnt happen until far after luther went to the grave. Those happen now, kind of like an infection doesnt happen at the time of the injury, but if the injury isnt treated.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 5 2005, 04:27 AM']Photo.."merger" or "unity" should be the top priority for every believer because it is what Christ prayed for in the garden and it is the chief concern for paul.
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not if it involves compromising the True faith for some watered-down hybrid that doesn't satisfy anyone, and a man-made ecclesiology.

i'm going to peace out and go to bed... i have a final tomorrow.

[N/A Gone]

photo..on another thread we are debating interpretation on what christ meant when he said woman...personal interpretation and study isnt wrong..as long as within the guidlines of the church.

jmjtima..

luther didnt debate eccesiology, rather the exercise of that eccesiology

[The Joey-O]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Dec 5 2005, 05:29 AM']personal interpretation of Scripture goes under Sola Scriptura, which is one of the 3 tenents of Protestant theology.
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Protestant theology?! Wrong! Lutheran theology, yes. Common to many Protestant denominations, yes. But, universal, absolutely not! Again, I didn't believe in Sola Scriptura. I used the Welseyan Quadrangle when I was Protestant. This is far more common to be used amongst Protestant theologians.