N/A Gone Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 see spot run kicks 40 days....but more people have read it last year than any religion book and it is influencing more "leaders" than any book right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joey-O Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 The point is: Don't ignore Protestants, just because they're Protestants. If you agree with the Pope and say that they are part of the Body of Christ. Then, you have to say that they contribute to that body. They're not a dead limb, otherwise they'd be cut off as heretics. But, they're not being cut off as heretics. They're being sought after for reunion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 [quote name='phatcatholic' date='Dec 5 2005, 02:56 AM']maybe its b/c you go to a protestant university and you have emmersed yourself in their culture. i don't see alot of devoted protestants, but that's b/c i don't surround myself w/ them. however, i have emmersed myself in the Catholic culture here in Louisville, and i see TONS of devoted catholics. [right][snapback]811407[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I've been immersed in protestant culture and i go to a secular university but that doesn't mean one has to buy into it. It's a choice you make whether to go against the grain or with the grain. [quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 5 2005, 02:59 AM']if you havent heard of Noll, yancy or Boyd than perhaps you are ignoring protestant lit all together. cause those are huge names in their field. I have read about 5 of Hahns books, but the difference is CS lewis writes in a way acceptable by everyone, from catholic to pentacostals, where as the majority of educated protestants will consider hahn to be fundi. I do need to read some keating, i have only read brief bits. Im not dissing catholic writers, just sayin that protestants brought more than the needed "b" to the party [right][snapback]811410[/snapback][/right] [/quote] the problem with Protestant theology is that they're trying to re-invent the wheel. They don't have 2,000 years of Christian Tradition to fall back on. It seems to me that every new generation of Protestants has to reinvent itself, reading the Bible anew to figure out what is true and what is false, what is good and what is bad, what is real and what is not real. That's not to say that we shouldn't look to Scripture for authority but when you see it as your only source of revelation it has a way of preventing theological progress. Sacred Tradition is the Holy Spirit's way of helping the Church pass on the fruits of one generation's contemplation to the next. We don't have to reinvent the wheel because we TRUST that the generation before us built the wheel right the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 [quote name='The Joey-O' date='Dec 5 2005, 03:22 AM']The point is: Don't ignore Protestants, just because they're Protestants. If you agree with the Pope and say that they are part of the Body of Christ. Then, you have to say that they contribute to that body. They're not a dead limb, otherwise they'd be cut off as heretics. But, they're not being cut off as heretics. They're being sought after for reunion. [right][snapback]811422[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think the nature of Protestantism (i.e. rejecting Sacred Tradition) keeps it from producing the same amount of good fruit as the rest of the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Gone Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 sir, hate to break it to ya, but the good protestants have a firm grasp on patristics..as an open theist my study in patristics is what brought me back to the church. They are not re-inventing the wheel, as much as using a different blue-print Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 [quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 5 2005, 03:31 AM']sir, hate to break it to ya, but the good protestants have a firm grasp on patristics..as an open theist my study in patristics is what brought me back to the church. They are not re-inventing the wheel, as much as using a different blue-print [right][snapback]811430[/snapback][/right] [/quote] don't call me sir. you call me ma'am, understand? what does it mean to be an "open theist?" and what "church" did your study bring you back to? I would say that Sacred Tradition is not just the Early Church Fathers... it is that, plus the Councils, the Popes, the Saints... the Church throughout the ages. Most Protestants I know barely even know what an Early Church Father is. I would say that the "new blueprint" that Protestants are trying to use is inherently flawed because it goes against Jesus' plan for His Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 "firm grasp on patristics" haha!! i've heard my joke for the day....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joey-O Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 There really needs to be a gender indicator on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Gone Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 no offense ma'am, but I doubt Christ intended on a fractured church also. phatcatholic, is there some logic to your comment or should I consider it a slap in the face or perhaps some prejudice? I know a few protestants that I will always cherish in their knowledge and understanding of patristics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joey-O Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Nobody would know that revprodeji's the prettiest chimp in the see, unless they went to the convert's board. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=39897&st=25"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...pic=39897&st=25[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Joey-O Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Wow...they must give that church scholar title out to just about anyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 proddy, joey.................if ur point is to show us that protestants have good things to offer, we don't deny this. if that's all ur trying to get across, then the debate can end here. however, when you say that the protestants have "better" theologians in certain areas, or that the Church does not have anything to offer in certain areas, that's where we all disagree with you. the mere fact that protestants do not possess the fullness of truth means that, as a catholic, i can only take their message so far. eventually, the lack of fullness will be revealed and i will cease to gain much fruit from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 [quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 5 2005, 03:44 AM']no offense ma'am, but I doubt Christ intended on a fractured church also. phatcatholic, is there some logic to your comment or should I consider it a slap in the face or perhaps some prejudice? I know a few protestants that I will always cherish in their knowledge and understanding of patristics [right][snapback]811439[/snapback][/right] [/quote] [quote name='The Joey-O' date='Dec 5 2005, 03:45 AM']Wow...they must give that church scholar title out to just about anyone... [right][snapback]811441[/snapback][/right] [/quote] my apologies. its late and i seem to have lost my fiddler....... my experience in discussing patristics w/ protestants is that they are either unaware of the ancient roots of catholic teaching, or they misinterpret history (for example, by saying that the Catholic Church was "invented" by Constantine in 300 AD) or they twist the words of the Fathers to have them say things they certainly would not have believed (for example, that the Fathers believed in Sola Scriptura or that St. Augustine denied that Peter was the Rock from Mat. 16:18). hopefully that explains my previously uncharitable response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 [quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 5 2005, 03:44 AM']no offense ma'am, but I doubt Christ intended on a fractured church also. [right][snapback]811439[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Of course Christ didn't intend on a fractured Church. He wanted us to be one flock, with one shepherd. that's why he gave us a pope, to keep the Church united. So what did people do? They protested the pope, whose office is instituted by God. Sola Scriptura and relying on one's own personal interpretation of the Bible "guided by the Holy Spirit" is the reason why the Church isn't united today. I'm not calling all Protestants heretics, but the Protestant system of thought is inherently flawed. Obviously this isn't the fault of those who were brought up this way, but it doesn't change the fact that it's flawed thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N/A Gone Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Dec 5 2005, 04:40 AM']don't call me sir. you call me ma'am, understand? what does it mean to be an "open theist?" and what "church" did your study bring you back to? I would say that Sacred Tradition is not just the Early Church Fathers... it is that, plus the Councils, the Popes, the Saints... the Church throughout the ages. Most Protestants I know barely even know what an Early Church Father is. I would say that the "new blueprint" that Protestants are trying to use is inherently flawed because it goes against Jesus' plan for His Church. [right][snapback]811435[/snapback][/right] [/quote] ma'am,(sorry for the gender) Open theist is a view on time and how our free will works with it. It is based mostly on a spiritual warfare model of theodicy. Hence the practical term is TWT. my studies always continue..My church is catholic, although ecumenical focused most of the protestant theologians I work with consider everything until St. thomas to be "not roman" catholic and thus fair-game,. Even some who consider JPII to be a great theologian, but are not catholic.See, for a protestant they can grab things from a methodist or from a baptist and treat it as a theologian seeking God. so they use catholic material all the time. "jesus' plan for the church" ahh, rounded statement on eccesiology. check my sig.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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