Protestantism is Heresy.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 8 2005, 06:41 AM']actually I dont think we have the right to determine if someone is a material or formal. Because there is no way for us to know exactly what they know, and how they are convicted. I think this is a judgment we reserve for God and pray that they come convicted to the knowledge the spirit gives them
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Oh yes I agree with you. To know if they are truly a formal or material hereitc would seem to imply that would have to know something about their disposition of the heart. That is something that we cannot know. I did not mean to sound like we should judge them, but rather to point out that we should refrain from saying, "All protestants are X." X here being a type of heresy or heretic.

I would say, however, that the Church does have the right to proclaim someone a heretic...

[N/A Gone]

yea, but not what form.,..I also feel that dialogue to the extent is needed before declaring a heretic, thus we have a more clear understanding.

I would argue that the majority of protestants are not formal heretics, because they do not know for certain the church in their mind as well as their hearts. conscience is strong for them

[Guest carlaj]

"especially in cases of protestants that make their faith seem almost more like it is based on denial and rejection of Catholic ideas than on an independent theology."


Finally, someone has said what I have seen and experienced! Thank you. I am so confused by this topic. I owned a Catholic store, and I finally came to the conclusion that if the Catholic Church was gone tomorrow, these certain denominations would have absolutely nothing to base their beliefs on. Many talked about how their pastors said this or that about the Catholic Church, how the Pastor said Catholics don't believe Jesus died on the cross, the Pastor said that we worship Mary, the Pastor said we needed to be converted.... etc.... One gentleman that kept coming in I finally handed a Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth booklet and told him not to come back until he had read something written by a real Catholic. He never came back. He had said a friend that "used to be a Catholic" said it was no use trying to convert me. Geese! I told him in all my years of going to Mass, I never once heard the Protestants discussed. This is what confuses me. They have a deep hatred of Catholics, and there is no way to talk to them. I believe many are living in obstinate rejection of Catholic teaching, feeling they are above actually learning the truth. It was extremely frustrating but I was afraid to voice the thought that it was heresy. This area is called by a local priest
"The Rome of Protestantism" being that the area is chuck full of Protestant colleges and huge mega churches. It makes me want to stay in my box. Ha Ha. It doesn't help that 90% of the people who came in our store said they didn't have time to read and always asked for Protestant books if they did. It was truly an eye opening experience. I still feel extremely frustrated and confused by it.

[N/A Gone]

this was a fun thread

[Desert Walker]

Sometimes I think that obstinate, heretical posturing against the church stopped existing after Vatican II.

[Diamond]

I think it'd help you guys understand to maybe get to ask a Protestant all about what they believe and think. I would like this because as a Protestant by catagory, I see some misconceptions on here about what I'm about, at least personally. Obviously I can't speak for the Protestants as a whole because like you said, it's very case by case. Because of the fact that Protestant has been used to encompass everything that's not Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, there are a TON of differences between pieces of what some dub the "Protestant Church."



Anyways, I just thought it would be useful. I volunteer to be the guinea pig if anyone wants to try it.

[MichaelFilo]

Oh, we don't need Protestant guinea pigs, especially me, in Florida, just off the Bible belt. Theres plenty of Protestants to go around. And whilst the tally is at one, I shall se ethe rest converted before my life is through, or so I hope. Never think we look down on Protestants, we love you as we do all God's creation created in his image. In fact, we worry so much about Protestants that we devote thread upon thread to find out the true nature of yoru hopes for salvation, ad we earnestly seek your salvation, because we would do it for our fellow brothers.

God bless,
Mikey

[ironmonk]

Please do not take this the wrong way....

There are thousands of protestant churches. Some think one thing, some think others. There are no general misconceptions here... there is a protestant somewhere that believes something listed here. Maybe you disagree with it, and trust me, we do know that you all are different.

People who are born into protestantism or it's the first religion they know are not guilty of heresy, because it's no fault of their own. Even though they may be in error, if they seek the truth of Christ with and open and sincere heart we call them "Catholic by desire".

All protestant churches split off from the Catholic Church.

It was the Catholic Church that gave us the bible because the Catholic Church has the authority given to it by Christ.

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of God, that we received it from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of it at all."
~ Martin Luther, Commentary on St. John


Here is a little info for you to consider and research:


If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534, because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to re-marry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.

If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.

If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.

If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.

If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.

If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as "Church of the Nazarene," "Pentecostal Gospel," "Holiness Church," "Pilgrim Holiness Church," "Jehovah's Witnesses," your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past one hundred years.

If you are Roman Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.

"O God,
I humbly beseech thee to teach me thy true religion,
that leads to everlasting happiness,
through Jesus Christ thy Son, our Lord. Amen."

God Bless,
ironmonk

[N/A Gone]

As someone who is finishing and undergrad in protestant theology I can play question/answer but you must realise that all the denoms are so different, a methodist and a evangelical free church protestant and a calvinist will have complete different ideas of everything from soteriology to theodicy and eccesiology. The issue is that the authority is schools of thought that interpret scripture. The method that those schools of thoughts use to teach and what they teach determine everything. Some protestant denominations are just "loyal" to their councils as we are. And others loyality are reflected on the way they interpret personally. They dont believe catholicism has the authority, and they would rather obey their conscience because they will be judged by that. But as far understanding official protestant doctrine. Good luck. I can speak from an evangelical/free church baptist background. I have much experience in that arena mostly debating calvinism.

[ironmonk]

The thing is, most of us here are more concerned with correcting many of the lies about the Catholic Church rather than trying to say where protestants error.

Maybe start a thread with what you think is wrong with the Catholic Church and then you'll see what I'm talking about.

God Bless,
ironmonk