Protestantism is Heresy.

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 5 2005, 12:21 PM']I should be a militant!!!! 4 real, is there a test I can take? wanna see my books?
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Why do you want militant so badly? If others think that you deserve it, it will come. Give it time.

[N/A Gone]

its just who I am...

[Socrates]

[quote name='Paphnutius' date='Dec 5 2005, 05:37 PM']Why do you want militant so badly? If others think that you deserve it, it will come. Give it time.
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Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but those titles really mean nothing. This is just a silly website, nothing more.

The titles really mean nothing more than "dUSt likes me" and "dUSt really likes me."

[photosynthesis]

yeah, Church Triumphant is a better title than both of those

[The Joey-O]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Dec 5 2005, 01:02 PM']I haven' t even heard of 2 of those... soul slumber? interesting.
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You probably haven't heard of Charismatic Apostolic Authority, because I made it up. I knew that there had to be some people with the authority to say that "this is right" and "this is wrong", because otherwise everything would just be up to some person's opinion. There'd be no "this is Christianity". I believed that this gift of Apostolic Authority was transmitted by God at his whim and was evidenced by signs and miracles. Thus making it Charismatic.

The idea of Soul Slumber was my reconciling the fact that it seems that we die and then Revelation seems to say at the Apocalypse, everyone is judged as to whether they go to Heaven or Hell. I thought that people just waited in a "sleep-like state" until this happened.

[phatcatholic]

question for revprodeji and joey: is protestantism heresy?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Dec 5 2005, 07:10 PM']Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but those titles really mean nothing.  This is just a silly website, nothing more.

The titles really mean nothing more than "dUSt likes me" and "dUSt really likes me."
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Wrong. Its has never a popularity contest.

[Ziggamafu]

My Old Beliefs That Are Incompatible With My New Beliefs:

That invisible, internal, spiritual dispositions can be removed from the visible, external, material actions – especially when such a belief disgraces a sacrament.

That the Bible alone is our infallible authority – especially when such a belief confines God’s Word to the written scriptures alone, discounting Sacred Tradition.

That faith, separated from works, is capable of justification – especially when such a belief is taken so far as to say that it is faith, and not grace, that saves us.

That all “traditions of men” (spiritual disciplines and devotions) are unnecessary – especially when such a belief suggests that traditions are for those with weak faith.

That the attempt to make places, events, or things more sacred is superfluous – especially when such a belief discourages material means of gloriously representing our faith.

That because certain truths of the faith are more important than others, lesser truths become irrelevant – especially when assent to these lesser truths is deemed unimportant.

That it doesn’t matter what denomination of Christians one belongs to – especially when such a belief suggests that the Church has no visible boundaries outside of the Creed.

That Mary is not every Christians spiritual Mother or the Queen of Heaven – especially when such a belief is taken so far as to say that she is not the Mother of God or that we shouldn’t be required to honor and bless her in practice.

That the Pope is not every Christian’s leader, the visible representative of Christ as head of the visible Church – especially when such a belief discounts his authority.

That there is no communion between Heaven and Earth or that there is no Purgatory – especially when such a belief discourages praying for the dead or disregards indulgences.

That intercommunion should take place between Catholic and non-Catholic Christians – especially when such a belief suggests that apostolic authority is unnecessary for Mass.

That the Eucharist is not truly, absolutely, and only the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of the Incarnated Christ, come in the flesh, under the appearances of bread and wine – especially when such a belief discourages the worship and adoration due to him as such.

That good works are not as important as charismatic experiences – especially when such a belief suggests that charismatic experiences are necessary to know the Holy Spirit.

That the purpose of unity during intercourse is more important than the purpose of procreation – especially when such a belief allows artificial contraceptives or sterilization as a morally permissible form of family planning.

...that's what I had to give up! And that's what I want my mother-in-law to understand. I don't heretical ideas planted in my daughter.

[N/A Gone]

[QUOTE][QUOTE]That invisible, internal, spiritual dispositions can be removed from the visible, external, material actions – especially when such a belief disgraces a sacrament.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

I thought something like this as a protestant, but it was thru prayer and the graces in sanctification

[[QUOTE]QUOTE]That the Bible alone is our infallible authority – especially when such a belief confines God’s Word to the written scriptures alone, discounting Sacred Tradition.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

I was a wesylan quad type..

[QUOTE][QUOTE]That faith, separated from works, is capable of justification – especially when such a belief is taken so far as to say that it is faith, and not grace, that saves us.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

dont agree there at all, i always felt that

[QUOTE][QUOTE]That all “traditions of men” (spiritual disciplines and devotions) are unnecessary – especially when such a belief suggests that traditions are for those with weak faith.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Protestants use traditions, they just want biblical or simply logic reasons for them. No problem here for me either. I still want the same things..

[[QUOTE]QUOTE]That the attempt to make places, events, or things more sacred is superfluous – especially when such a belief discourages material means of gloriously representing our faith.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

dont get you here

[QUOTE][QUOTE]That because certain truths of the faith are more important than others, lesser truths become irrelevant – especially when assent to these lesser truths is deemed unimportant. [/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

explain please

[QUOTE][QUOTE]That it doesn’t matter what denomination of Christians one belongs to – especially when such a belief suggests that the Church has no visible boundaries outside of the Creed.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

ahh eccesiology..whats wrong with this?

[QUOTE][QUOTE]That Mary is not every Christians spiritual Mother or the Queen of Heaven – especially when such a belief is taken so far as to say that she is not the Mother of God or that we shouldn’t be required to honor and bless her in practice.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

I agree with you here, I was very avoidant of mary as a protestant

[QUOTE][QUOTE]That the Pope is not every Christian’s leader, the visible representative of Christ as head of the visible Church – especially when such a belief discounts his authority. [/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

agree with you here too, but not completly, most protesatants have a theologian, or a leadership body it submits too

[QUOTE][QUOTE]That there is no communion between Heaven and Earth or that there is no Purgatory – especially when such a belief discourages praying for the dead or disregards indulgences.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

indulagences are still touchy for me..I dont like them much yet..there is too much bad press about purgatory for protestants. but I believe after I died I would need to finish off the sanctiication process

[QUOTE][QUOTE]That intercommunion should take place between Catholic and non-Catholic Christians – especially when such a belief suggests that apostolic authority is unnecessary for Mass.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

nope//

[QUOTE][QUOTE]That the Eucharist is not truly, absolutely, and only the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of the Incarnated Christ, come in the flesh, under the appearances of bread and wine – especially when such a belief discourages the worship and adoration due to him as such.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

true


[QUOTE][QUOTE]That good works are not as important as charismatic experiences – especially when such a belief suggests that charismatic experiences are necessary to know the Holy Spirit.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

I would disagree


[QUOTE][QUOTE]That the purpose of unity during intercourse is more important than the purpose of procreation – especially when such a belief allows artificial contraceptives or sterilization as a morally permissible form of family planning.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

I always thought it was both..but the PC was wrong

[QUOTE]...that's what I had to give up! And that's what I want my mother-in-law to understand. I don't heretical ideas planted in my daughter.[/QUOTE]

sounds personal..i will pray for you

different protestant backgrounds have different compatabilities

Edited December 7, 2005 by Revprodeji

[Ziggamafu]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 7 2005, 06:05 AM']
[/QUOTE]

I thought something like this as a protestant, but it was thru prayer and the graces in sanctification

[[/QUOTE]

I was a wesylan quad type..

[/QUOTE]

dont agree there at all, i always felt that

[/QUOTE]

Protestants use traditions, they just want biblical or simply logic reasons for them. No problem here for me either. I still want the same things..

[[/QUOTE]

dont get you here

[/QUOTE]

explain please

[/QUOTE]

ahh eccesiology..whats wrong with this?

[/QUOTE]

I agree with you here, I was very avoidant of mary as a protestant

[/QUOTE]

agree with you here too, but not completly, most protesatants have a theologian, or a leadership body it submits too

[/QUOTE]

indulagences are still touchy for me..I dont like them much yet..there is too much bad press about purgatory for protestants. but I believe after I died I would need to finish off the sanctiication process

[/QUOTE]

nope//

[/QUOTE]

true
[/QUOTE]

I would disagree
[/QUOTE]

I always thought it was both..but the PC was wrong
sounds personal..i will pray for you

different protestant backgrounds have different compatabilities
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Yeah...this whole thread was started out of frustration with my mother-in-law. She's very Protestant and VERY into saying that she' s not. It drives me crazy that she doesn't realize the serious nature of our differences - especially in relation to the daughter I'm expecting, and how we'll raise her.

Oh, and the two things you didn't get - material decorations (Protestants usually tend towards condemnation of extravagence in worship or the sanctuary; like "sacred" should only be on the inside) and the heirarchy of truth (as long as I believe in Jesus, it doesn't matter at if I give assent to the lesser beliefs, whether they're true or not - who cares if Mary was Assumed?). All the attitudes I listed are what I used to believe and my mother-in-law continues to believe.

[N/A Gone]

phatty...

material and formal heresy has a difference, protestants are 1 not the other.

zigga
I dont think I agree in your assessment of the last 2. but like we have agreed on, protestants think different thingd

[Paphnutius]

[quote name='Revprodeji' date='Dec 8 2005, 06:09 AM']phatty...material and formal heresy has a difference, protestants are 1 not the other.
[/quote]
Some modern day protestants are indeed formal heretics. You are correc, though, we should not generalize all of them into one or the other. It is a case by case situation.

Edited December 8, 2005 by Paphnutius

[N/A Gone]

actually I dont think we have the right to determine if someone is a material or formal. Because there is no way for us to know exactly what they know, and how they are convicted. I think this is a judgment we reserve for God and pray that they come convicted to the knowledge the spirit gives them

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='Nov 14 2005, 06:06 AM']But Protestantism is Heresy. I
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What else is new? I too agree that we should not shy away from the classification of protestantism as heresy. However, we must of course keep in mind that individual protestants aren't heretics unless they have abandoned the Church. Most protestants were born into their religion and so cannot be heretics though they adhere to heresy.

just to encapsulate for those who haven't been here in a couple days.

[Aloysius]

it's not impossible for them to have been born into the protestant community and still have some formal heresy, especially in cases of protestants that make their faith seem almost more like it is based on denial and rejection of Catholic ideas than on an independent theology.

remember, the albigensians even 3rd or 4th (how many did that go? not sure) generations were formal heretics-- their entire faith was based around rejecting the concept of morality. even people born into albigensian churches were often formal heretics for this reason.