'Quiet' Catholicism?

[Socrates]

[quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Nov 13 2005, 09:08 PM']So, what do you say? Do you think that saying the rosary outside an abortion clinic (make that 6 rosaries) will somehow make the problem go away? It hasn't yet.[/quote]
Just because somehting hasn't "ended the problem" (totally ended abortion) doesn't mean it is useless. Who are you to say that no lives have been saved by praying the rosary? To poo-poo prayer in this way hardly seems Catholic. Just because we can't always immediately see the results of prayer, doesn't mean it should be discredited.

[quote]Will getting all the Catholics together to march around with signs in fron tof the whitehouse for one day in a year, while abortion supporters hold up their own not to far, make abortion stop?
[/quote]
Have you ever actually been to a March for Life? Something tells me you haven't. The streets are filled with pro-lifers, and the pro-abort people are few and hard to find. The media always uses carefully edited photos and reporting to give the impression that this is a more-or-less even skirmish between a few protesters on each side.
The March by itself will not end abortion, but this does not mean it is useless. It is essentially a show of numbers to show the politicians in Washington that there are Americans who care about the abortion issue, and they can not just be discounted or discredited.
The March should not be the begin-all and end-all of the pro-life movement, but that does not mean it should be discredited as useless.

[quote]Maybe then we should vote against abortion; except that leads to one problem, even our vote is meaningless if there is nothing to vote on. Nothing we vote on but our representitives (who will NOT take a stand against abortion, they will only stop the spread of it) is of any relevance anyway. No state has banned abortion (Roe vs. Wade didn't make a ruling against abortion, but that doesn't mean states couldn't do it[right][snapback]787628[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
What Roe v. Wade did was rule that states could not have laws against abortion. For states to have laws against abortion, the evil ruling of Roe vs. Wade must first be overturned.
We Catholics should vote for politicians who are against abortion.
I am sick of seeing "pro-life" Catholics on here who refuse to do anything to protest the abortion or support the pro-life movement in any way, and insist on voting for blatantly pro-abort politicians, on the ground that this is all "ineffective." I believe that if everyone claiming to be a "pro-life Catholic" would actually make even a miminal effort in that regard, progress could be made. Instead, we get cynical do-nothing apathy from so many Catholics who claim to be pro-life.

Yes, I agree that pro-lifers need to do more, but let's not discount what has been done as having no effect whatever. And while you say no effort is being made, that is not true. Some people have literally devoted their lives to the pro-life cause. And yes, we need more.

Edited November 14, 2005 by Socrates

[DAF]

[quote]Who said anything about a hunger strike? [/quote]
You indirectly mentioned it:
[quote]but I personally would advocate radical peaceful protests and civil dosobedience, the likes of which Gandhi pushed for the independence of India with[/quote]
I meant that starving ourselves in protest to an enemy that wants to kill us anyway might be self defeating. I thought it was funny, tough croud.

[tojo]

[quote name='DAF' date='Nov 13 2005, 09:51 PM']You indirectly mentioned it:

I meant that starving ourselves in protest to an enemy that wants to kill us anyway might be self defeating. I thought it was funny, tough croud.
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[/quote]

Well, sure Gandhi went on a hunger strike, but it wasn't something he had the Indian masses do.

[MichaelFilo]

Well sure, in as much as doing something evil is wrong, then anything that is done that requires evil (it's means) must be wrong.

I must say, I'm out there praying with the rest of the people saying the rosary. I do find that it carries success, but ultimately the babies it saves are one in maybe 6 or 7 for that day. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful when I see someone leave before they start the massacre. I'm grateful when they consider the Catholic position, even after they just murdered a life (most people who get one abortion have no trouble getting a second), but all that doesn't save the other 5-6 babies who were there.

The prayer started with holding up signs, but we threw that away for the prayer, and I think with good reason. I never and will never say prayer is not a good way to stop this evil; I have seen it's effects firsthand, but I must remember the words of James : "Faith without works is dead". I may pray and hope that God will help, but this is all dead Faith. God gave each man two hands and each man two legs, and I am sure He intended that we use them.

I specifically noted Operation Rescue because it was only as violent as neccessary. That is, no one was killed, but if you had to pull someone out of the clinic to save the child, you did. If you had to stop a doctor by force, you did. This is what I mean by militant. Abortion isn't some intellectual debate where I pray, picket, and debate and hope that the other side takes my intellectual debate. It's an actual problem. People actually die. That is what I mean by militant, I mean, we must be ready to use force to do what is right.

That is, I am trying to tie it back in to the topic. I say that being militant is neccessary as a Catholic in as much as we aren't fighting about beliefs. When someone is arguing with someone about abortion, then we must not be militant. When someone is giving an abortion, we must be militant. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees by saying "Do as they say, not as they do" but he had no trouble going into the temple and whipping up a storm when the money collecters were there in the act of desecrating God's temple. This is what I mean.

PS, I have and never will discredit prayer. It's a joke for me to do it, or many of my days have been spent in vain. I just happen to believe in prayer without action is ineffective as is action without prayer.

God bless,
Mikey

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Nov 13 2005, 08:01 PM']I have two basic points to make.  First, Catholics by and large definitely need to start growing some b***s and standing up for our beleifs and the right to proclaim them.  Too many have fallen into the trap of relativism and excessive liberal "tolerance," in which they are afraid to proclaim their beliefs for fear of offending those who believe differently.  [right][snapback]787549[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

I couldn't agree with you more! And to add to your point, it has been my observation that there are Catholics who are either intimidated or uneducated and let the enemies of the Faith define what "Christlike" and "Christian". Either that, or they are lazy and think that they can sit on their fat butts eating bon-bons all day and think that God will do the wokr for us, forgetting that we are often the instruments that He uses to get the job done.

[PadreSantiago]

hmmm so who are the two terrorists in our midsts who wants to kill innocent lives in the name of their God?

[Myles Domini]

[url="http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=5394"]Wal-Mart bends to demands by Catholic League [/url]

Now thats whats I'm talking about! Bill Donohue 4 life!

[rkwright]

the ends never justify the means...

[Guest Rick777]

Just use your common sense.

[MichaelFilo]

Agreed.

Also, force is not evil. You shouldn't kill people to save lives. You should do something to stop lives from being taken.

I voted for the extreme measure, I don't know who else did though.

God bless,
Mikey

[MC Just]

[quote name='Myles' date='Nov 14 2005, 01:15 PM'][url="http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=5394"]Wal-Mart bends to demands by Catholic League [/url]

Now thats whats I'm talking about! Bill Donohue 4 life! 
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[/quote]

amen.

[Guest Rick777]