don't need nothin if i can't make

[Aloysius]

so there's that song, where he sings about his hill-billy scholar blue collar of a man grandfather who came from the school where he didn't need nothin if he couldn't make it with his own two hands...


SOOOO...

I wanna learn how to build a computer out of nothing but basically completely raw parts (plastic and metal and rubber and whatever else is needed)

how would you go about doing and/or learning to do such athing? :

[philothea]

Um.

Build a billion-dollar IC fabrication plant first...

Sorry, but you are talking about the pinnacle of modern industrial technology!

You might be able to make some kind of simple logic machine from ordinary parts. Would you be interested in that?

[Aloysius]

hmm... there's gotta be a way to make a computer. couldn't you have a cheap workshop factory that can only make one computer at a time?

[philothea]

The simplest you might be able to do is to make something from old tube-style switches, and you're still going to need industrial-quality machining, vacuum pumps, and metal plating. And all you'd get is ENIAC. Hardly worth being called a computer by our standards.

Integrated circuits come from specially grown single-crystal silicon, etched, doped, and plated with microscopic precision by robotic equipment in clean rooms.

Would you settle for buliding a computer from discrete components?

[Aloysius]

I suppose that'd half to do. I would at least like to know better how the darn machine works. I don't want Terminator-style machines taking over the world, I'd like to know just exactly how they all work if I'm gonna use them... that'll satisfy my back-woods desire to not use anything if I couldn't make it with my own two hands I think

lol

[Laudate_Dominum]

computers are lame. I can't wait to escape them.. someday.. *sigh*

[Aloysius]

dude, I wanna create a computer designed to do nothing but navigate phatmass and the Vatican site and all sorts of online libraries and stuff... maybe a little email

I mean, I'd like to take the anti-computer route and just live most simply, but I can't deny the good computers have done in educating me and stuff. I'd just like it simplified a bit so I understood it, rather than have this crazy black box I've never seen the inside of that just magically does everything I want it to

[Laudate_Dominum]

You need to meet some people that I know. :

I know a fellow (Catholic), who has never used anything but hand tools, and who acquired some land, built himself a log cabin, planted some crops and raised a large family on this self-sufficient homestead. They're cool.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Nov 10 2005, 02:04 AM']dude, I wanna create a computer designed to do nothing but navigate phatmass and the Vatican site and all sorts of online libraries and stuff... maybe a little email

I mean, I'd like to take the anti-computer route and just live most simply, but I can't deny the good computers have done in educating me and stuff.  I'd just like it simplified a bit so I understood it, rather than have this crazy black box I've never seen the inside of that just magically does everything I want it to
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you probably don't need to build a custom computer. Maybe you could just write a special program that makes it so all you can is phatmass and all that. hehe

you should bust open your computer and check it out. It's just a bunch of junk anyway.
That would stink to have to learn everything now.. I first learned the ins and outs of computers back when they were relatively simple, so I've just had to learn a few things here and there as stuff gets more complicated. I would hate to have to just be starting with that right now.
I guess its still basically the same. Kind of funny actually. I was anticipating a lot more by this time.

[philothea]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Nov 10 2005, 02:04 AM']dude, I wanna create a computer designed to do nothing but navigate phatmass and the Vatican site and all sorts of online libraries and stuff... maybe a little email

I mean, I'd like to take the anti-computer route and just live most simply, but I can't deny the good computers have done in educating me and stuff.  I'd just like it simplified a bit so I understood it, rather than have this crazy black box I've never seen the inside of that just magically does everything I want it to
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Get and install the Linux distribution Debian. (This is not especially hard.) Or you could go with Gentoo if you're feeling industrious.

Setting either of those up will teach you vastly more about how computers work than building one will. Hardware doesn't manifest anything obvious. It's software where everything interesting occurs.

Of course, we won't see you for a few years while you get up to speed.

Open source software ought to appeal to your do-it-yourself nature!

[Aloysius]

well I wanna first know the material reality of the machine first, the physical stuff that produces that virtual thing, then figure out all the software business a little...

[philothea]

Hmm. Well, you could start with assembling a PC from parts: motherboard, processor, memory, drives, video card, etc. But I don't know if that would tell you how it [i]worked[/i], only what components it required.

I'm not sure how much you will need to know to feel you understand. The basis of electronics is quantum mechanics. Then you can move up to material sciences and chemistry. Electrical engineering describes the way the smallest components work (resistance, capacitance, inductance, etc.). Those get built up into complex logic circuits that are best described symbolically.

From many of those complex integrated circuits, a motherboard is designed, with a processor, various types of memory, data busses, BIOS, etc. Then you add the components.

So where do you want to start?

Edited November 10, 2005 by philothea

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='philothea' date='Nov 10 2005, 02:35 AM']Hmm.  Well, you could start with assembling a PC from parts: motherboard, processor, memory, drives, video card, etc.  But I don't know if that would tell you how it [i]worked[/i], only what components it required.

I'm not sure how much you will need to know to feel you understand.  The basis of electronics is quantum mechanics.  Then you can move up to material sciences and chemistry.  Electrical engineering describes the way the smallest components work (resistance, capacitance, inductance, etc.).  Those get built up into complex logic circuits that are best described symbolically.

From many of those complex integrated circuits, a motherboard is designed, with a processor, various types of memory, data busses, BIOS, etc. Then you add the components.

So where do you want to start?
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and my attempt at a computer nerd thing totally flopped? I wanna start a thread on programming or something and I better see some posts. :

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Nov 10 2005, 03:10 AM']you probably don't need to build a custom computer. Maybe you could just write a special program that makes it so all you can is phatmass and all that. hehe

you should bust open your computer and check it out. It's just a bunch of junk anyway.

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lol last computer I did that to ended up completely destroyed. good thing it was old and unneeded anymore, but yeah lol

[Theoketos]

Al, either you need computers and so you need something that can not be made from your own two hands...or you only need those things which come from your own two hands.

I think your walled carless city would be really cool with out computers.

BTW the first "computer" was something like a fancy sewing machine made by a french man. He programed it using punch cards. The punch cards were the commands given to the machine so that it could process fabric in a pattern. You might be able to build that with your own hands.