Cardinal endorses condom use

[jasJis]

It's not being used as a contraception. Read the article. It's similar to taking the Pill for medical reasons when you aren't having sex. (I said similar, not identical.)

[onathing1]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Nov 8 2005, 12:46 PM']It's not being used as a contraception.  Read the article.  It's similar to taking the Pill for medical reasons when you aren't having sex.  (I said similar, not identical.)
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There are alternatives to taking the Pill for medical reasons. It does not need to be done, people just think it does.

[jasJis]

Did you read the article and give it some thought. It's about preventing AIDS within a marriage AFTER a spouse had committed infedelity and contracted it and infecting the other spouse. That is the context. And the Pill is just hormones and NOT an abortificant if one is not having sex. It's like when you're using condoms as water balloons, they aren't contraception devices.

[Sojourner]

Jas, I can understand your argument ... I need to think about it a bit, but it at first blush makes sense.

The only thing I'd say about it is that condoms only REDUCE the risk of transmitting HIV/AIDS -- they don't eliminate it. By endorsing condom use for this purpose -- even within marriage -- the cardinal is perpetuating the idea that condoms will solve the problem of AIDS in Africa, which they won't.

[chickens4life]

[QUOTE]


even if you claim not to be using it as a contraceptive that dosen't stop it from being one, does it?

[chickens4life]

I mean its still a contraceptive, and prevents you having children(that is if it works) even if you say your using it for another reason...

unless I am missing some thing here

Edited November 8, 2005 by chickens4life

[toledo_jesus]

here's a novel idea. Don't have sex. AIDS is a death sentence for you and your partner. It's tragic, or it's justice, depending on who you are.

Sacrifice should be the operative word here. As in, sacrifice what could potentially kill the person you claim to love.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Nov 8 2005, 03:48 PM']here's a novel idea.  Don't have sex.  AIDS is a death sentence for you and your partner.  It's tragic, or it's justice, depending on who you are. 

Sacrifice should be the operative word here.  As in, sacrifice what could potentially kill the person you claim to love.
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I agree, abstience, not contraceptive sex.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Maybe people with ebola should be allowed to make whoopie with themselves.. Or maybe the sexually handicapped should be allowed to shoot heroine.. But I guess I don't expect the Vatican to stray from its official line against such things..
I wonder if that cardinal would agree. These things don't even involve putting another person at risk of contracting a fatal disease.

reee-tarded.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Nov 8 2005, 02:48 PM']here's a novel idea.  Don't have sex.  AIDS is a death sentence for you and your partner.  It's tragic, or it's justice, depending on who you are. 

Sacrifice should be the operative word here.  As in, sacrifice what could potentially kill the person you claim to love.
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[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Nov 8 2005, 04:47 PM']I agree, abstience, not contraceptive sex.
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[quote name='cappie' date='Nov 6 2005, 06:44 PM']Cardinal Javier Lozano Barragan, who chairs the Pontifical Council for Health, [b]believes the use of condoms to be acceptable when abstinence is not an option. Bishop Kevin Dowling of Rustenburg, South Africa, has said that opposition to condoms amounts to a death sentence for women who cannot insist on abstinence or fidelity.[/b]
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[Era Might]

[quote]"The traditional teaching of the church has proven to be the only failsafe way to prevent the spread of HIV/Aids."

--Pope Benedict XVI

[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4081276.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4081276.stm[/url][/quote]

[toledo_jesus]

[quote]Cardinal Javier Lozano Barragan, who chairs the Pontifical Council for Health, believes the use of condoms to be acceptable when abstinence is not an option. Bishop Kevin Dowling of Rustenburg, South Africa, has said that opposition to condoms amounts to a death sentence for women who cannot insist on abstinence or fidelity.[/quote]
Condoms aren't even that effective. they break, they leak, they just don't do it. Suffering will still result. It's a no-win scenario, and in that case you may as well hold fast to your morals.


AIDS is really really bad folks. It's a plague.

[Brother Adam]

Who was it that said death before sin? Suffering is not valueless, it is redemptive.

[StatingTheObvious]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Nov 9 2005, 12:17 PM']Who was it that said death before sin? Suffering is not valueless, it is redemptive.
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[/quote]Exactly. That's why I would let my children starve before I would steal food.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote]Cardinal Javier Lozano Barragan, who chairs the Pontifical Council for Health, believes the use of condoms to be acceptable when abstinence is not an option. Bishop Kevin Dowling of Rustenburg, South Africa, has said that opposition to condoms amounts to a death sentence for women who cannot insist on abstinence or fidelity.[/quote]
Sure, if a women was in a situation where she was being raped by an aids infected sex addict she would be doing no wrong by asking that he at least wear a condom. But this hardly means the Church should start supporting condoms.

This just sounds like twisted propaganda to me. Willing to use such terrible cases as ammo for an agenda, rather than actually addressing the problem. The solution is not to empower abusive men to exploit women at the risk of their lives, but rather to liberate these women. No one should be forced to have sex with another person, especially when that person has aids. I mean are these people really saying that we should promote condoms so that women who live with aids infected sex addicts can accomodate the lusts of these men? At least they will have a better chance of not contracting the disease? This is twisted logic.

And how is promoting indiscriminate sexual activity ultimately going to remedy the aids epidemic?

Sure, sexual abstinence requires some restraint, but you would think a person with aids, and the person living with that aids infected individual, would have a bit of extra motivation.

And if we're really talking about a climate in which marital fidelity is unrealistic, and women are being forced to have sex at the risk of their lives, it seems like the priority should not be on promoting contraceptives, which will only prove to be counter-productive. Rather, what is needed is basic human rights action/social reform, and a sexual revolution according to the true meaning and dignity of marriage and sexuality. I only wish I knew more of the particulars involved. If this is just an example of an extreme case, then this is sad indeed. Perhaps the media is just grabbing quotes out of context trying to imply that there are Bishops and Cardinals who support their agenda when perhaps their position is more nuanced then that.