qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Nah, the part constantly quoted about how these [b]cases[/b] are very rare if not practically nonexistent. In the word "cases" I'm reading times that the death penalty is applicable (major crime) and also the ability/capacity of every government to detain criminals safely. Would you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 The Church's statement about rare cases is in regards to the safety of the innocent. If the incarceration of the guilty cannot satisfactorily protect the innocent, then the death penalty can be used. This is an argument of double effect Q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Well, then what makes these cases rare? I think that the fact that these cases are rare also falls into the question of what capacity do the governments have to protect the innocent, which from your statement here seems to be the same you say. What say you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Nov 6 2005, 11:07 PM']Well, then what makes these cases rare? I think that the fact that these cases are rare also falls into the question of what capacity do the governments have to protect the innocent, which from your statement here seems to be the same you say. What say you? [right][snapback]780843[/snapback][/right] [/quote] i say bring it back to the specific country. How's about the US? Is there any case where people will not be protected from a convicted murderer sentenced to life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Yes, the one that Cmom posted in the beginning where he escaped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Also, my point with all that I was just saying is that the capacity of governments to protect the dignity of human life varies from country to country and I would even argue that in some countries it's not good enough (meaning they would be better to use the death penalty). Either way, capacity is not a realm of morals, and so the Church cannot speak on it as the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Nov 6 2005, 11:13 PM']Yes, the one that Cmom posted in the beginning where he escaped. [right][snapback]780853[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I was hoping you'd bring that one up. What's an important detail about the escaped convict? He was a death row inmate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' date='Nov 6 2005, 11:19 PM']I was hoping you'd bring that one up. What's an important detail about the escaped convict? He was a death row inmate. [right][snapback]780863[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Iz true, but not dead. How about another specific country, say Iraq? How safe is it to incarcerate many people there? Edited November 7, 2005 by qfnol31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Nov 6 2005, 11:19 PM']Iz true, but not dead. How about another specific country, say Iraq? How safe is it to incarcerate many people there? [right][snapback]780867[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Let's look at a few more facts He was in county lock up waiting to be transported to a state facility. He also appeared to have help. He was also caught But let's stay with the US since the topic is "Capital Punishment in the USA" Can the US keep its population safe from dangerous convicts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Why move the discussion so fast? We shall get back to the US after we're done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Let's switch it around Q In regards to the US, when would the Church say it was morally acceptable for the US government to put a criminal to death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 When it's too dangerous to hold the convict. My question for you, can the Church determine if it is dangerous or not? (Perhaps, think of this as though it's about the justness of a war) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Nov 6 2005, 11:29 PM']When it's too dangerous to hold the convict. My question for you, can the Church determine if it is dangerous or not? (Perhaps, think of this as though it's about the justness of a war) [right][snapback]780881[/snapback][/right] [/quote] And if i were to tell you that cannot happen in the US.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 You're not the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 You're right I'm not However, I did work in the industry for 8 years. No one has ever escaped a supermax prison. Ever I don't believe that anyone has ever escaped an ad/seg unit of a state or federal facility either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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