Socrates Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Nov 6 2005, 09:34 PM']Answer my question Soc Is the Holy See wrong for calling for the end of the death penalty? [right][snapback]780680[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Whether right or wrong, it's not defining moral doctrine here. That's the point Cardinal Ratzinger was making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 [quote]Concerning the change in paragraph 2267 of the Catechism, which deals with the death penalty, one journalist asked if the revision reflected a shift in Church teaching on the death penalty since 1992. The cardinal {Ratzinger} said that the new text "does not categorically say that it [the legitimate imposition of the death penalty] is impossible, but it gives objective criteria which make it practically impossible for all of them to be met." He added: "This article follows what the encyclical Evangelium Vitae says in this regard."( Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger answered questions from journalists at the end of his presentation of the official Latin edition of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on September 9, 1997.)[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 I am not going into this again....have fun kiddies.....hot stuff, keep at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Nov 6 2005, 09:38 PM']Whether right or wrong, it's not defining moral doctrine here. That's the point Cardinal Ratzinger was making. [right][snapback]780692[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Abolishing the death penalty is not an issue of morality? You are gonna stick with that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Nov 6 2005, 09:36 PM']And that is a nonsensical answer. Human dignity has to be applied equally to all. That is what John Paul II was getting at. Incidentally, that is what the Catechetical view is getting at. It doesn't answer the question. It skirts it. [right][snapback]780687[/snapback][/right] [/quote] How? Those last three cases include someone whom (is this supposed to be whom?) would probably be more dangerous kept alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Nov 6 2005, 09:42 PM']Abolishing the death penalty is not an issue of morality? You are gonna stick with that one? [right][snapback]780700[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Obviously, it's an issue of morality. It is not defining dogma. If it was, there would be not "legitimate diversity of opinion" on this issue. No one has ever explained how the quote I gave [b]is[/b] to be properly interpreted - I guess we're just not supposed to question Cam's authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Nov 6 2005, 09:42 PM']Abolishing the death penalty is not an issue of morality? You are gonna stick with that one? [right][snapback]780700[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yep, until I'm dead. The application of such an act that is not intrinsically evil, because if you say it is, you have to answer to God, is not a necessity and igitur does not fall under faith and/or morals. The criteria falls under morals. The act falls under morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 hot stuff, will you please answer my question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Nov 6 2005, 09:47 PM']Obviously, it's an issue of morality. It is not defining dogma. If it was, there would be not "legitimate diversity of opinion" on this issue. [right][snapback]780709[/snapback][/right] [/quote] And if the Holy See has declared that it should be abolished Ratzinger is a part of the Holy See It is a matter of morals Where's the problem? Why would you, Al and others argue against the Holy See? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Because it's not the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 What question am I supposed to answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Nov 6 2005, 09:54 PM']Because it's not the Church. [right][snapback]780724[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Qfnol The Holy See is the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Nov 6 2005, 09:53 PM']And if the Holy See has declared that it should be abolished Ratzinger is a part of the Holy See It is a matter of morals Where's the problem? Why would you, Al and others argue against the Holy See? [right][snapback]780721[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Why may Catholics have a legitimate diversity of opinion on this issue? No one is even addressing this statement, and until someone does, I think this debate is going nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Nov 6 2005, 09:56 PM']What question am I supposed to answer? [right][snapback]780727[/snapback][/right] [/quote] What part of specific governments and their abilities falls under morals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Nov 6 2005, 09:57 PM']Why may Catholics have a legitimate diversity of opinion on this issue? No one is even addressing this statement, and until someone does, I think this debate is going nowhere. [right][snapback]780733[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well unless you ignore where Camster expanded upon Ratzinger's quote and the context it was given. Its just on the last page Soc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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