Could Mary have sinned?

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='19 February 2010 - 11:30 AM' timestamp='1266593430' post='2059397']
Micah is right that he warned you
[/quote]
Ja[u][/u]ime was right in saying that Michah was right.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='MIkolbe' date='19 February 2010 - 10:54 AM' timestamp='1266594842' post='2059404']
Ja[u][/u]ime was right in saying that Michah was right.
[/quote]
MIKolbe was wrong in spelling my name.

[MIKolbe]

would you believe i spelled you name ending in 'hah', because you are funny and have a brilliant sense of humor?































































yeah.. me neither.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

You spelled it the way my godfather spells it. He's a little goofy (he obsessively sweeps the sand off the sidewalk outside his cabana on a beach in southern California), so I'll put you into the same category and let you off the hook.

[MIKolbe]

color me relieved

[Veridicus]

[quote name='mommas_boy' date='19 February 2010 - 09:36 AM' timestamp='1266593807' post='2059401']
Christ was human. Could He have sinned?
[/quote]

Christ could not have sinned because he was also fully divine. I think the proper term is Christ had "impeccability".

I think Mary, like Eve, could have sinned after her conception; however Mary, to her merit, was conformed so fully to God's will that her Fiat was the most natural response imaginable for her. I think this is as deep as we really need to consider it. In my opinion, speculating whether she was incapable of sin in terms of some cosmic perspective outside of space/time only obfuscates her sanctity by seemingly reducing her Fiat to that of an automaton. I do not think anything is detracted from Christ by giving Mary the honor of her free-will cooperation in the plan of salvation which was aided by the grace of Christ; while stating she 'could not have sinned' does detract from the merit of her cooperation.

That's my $0.02

I'd rather fall on the side of giving my Mother too much credit; I think Jesus would too.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Veridicus

[Apotheoun]

[quote name='Veridicus' date='19 February 2010 - 12:21 PM' timestamp='1266607262' post='2059573']
Christ could not have sinned because he was also fully divine. I think the proper term is Christ had "impeccability".

I think Mary, like Eve, could have sinned after her conception; however Mary, to her merit, was conformed so fully to God's will that her Fiat was the most natural response imaginable for her. I think this is as deep as we really need to consider it. In my opinion, speculating whether she was incapable of sin in terms of some cosmic perspective outside of space/time only obfuscates her sanctity by seemingly reducing her Fiat to that of an automaton. I do not think anything is detracted from Christ by giving Mary the honor of her free-will cooperation in the plan of salvation which was aided by the grace of Christ; while stating she 'could not have sinned' does detract from the merit of her cooperation.

That's my $0.02

I'd rather fall on the side of giving my Mother too much credit; I think Jesus would too.
[/quote]
Although I would say it somewhat differently . . . I agree.

[Veridicus]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='19 February 2010 - 01:40 PM' timestamp='1266608400' post='2059587']
Although I would say it somewhat differently . . . I agree.
[/quote]

Well you're more edjumicated than me. I do appreciate/admire/wish to learn your theological concision and clarity.

[kafka]

no she could not have sinned. God created her and endowed her with the singular grace of Immaculate Conception and the singular grace of sinlessness throughout her life. Grace does not compromise free will as an opposing principle. Grace is a quality which orders and perfects the principle of free will to the end and goal for which it was created: God.

A human being is less than human when they choose to sin, yet God created and made her a perfect human.

Edited February 19, 2010 by kafka

[Jaime]

[quote name='kafka' date='19 February 2010 - 05:24 PM' timestamp='1266618243' post='2059686']
no she could not have sinned. God created her and endowed her with the singular grace of Immaculate Conception and the singular grace of sinlessness throughout her life. Grace does not compromise free will as an opposing principle. Grace is a quality which orders and perfects the principle of free will to the end and goal for which it was created: God.

A human being is less than human when they choose to sin, yet God created and made her a perfect human.
[/quote]

You need to read the thread an learn padwan

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='kafka' date='19 February 2010 - 06:24 PM' timestamp='1266618243' post='2059686']
no she could not have sinned. God created her and endowed her with the singular grace of Immaculate Conception and the singular grace of sinlessness throughout her life. Grace does not compromise free will as an opposing principle. Grace is a quality which orders and perfects the principle of free will to the end and goal for which it was created: God.

A human being is less than human when they choose to sin, yet God created and made her a perfect human.
[/quote]
To be a human being is to have free will.Remove the free will and you have a robot. Mary was capable of sin, she chose not to sin.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='19 February 2010 - 07:38 PM' timestamp='1266626335' post='2059724']
To be a human being is to have free will.Remove the free will and you have a robot. Mary was capable of sin, she chose not to sin.
[/quote]

I always thought that the desire to sin came from Original Sin (concupscence I think it's called..). So if Mary didn't have disordered passions like the rest of us then it seems she would have found avoiding sin significantly easier than the rest of us...

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='19 February 2010 - 08:08 PM' timestamp='1266628099' post='2059727']
I always thought that the desire to sin came from Original Sin (concupscence I think it's called..). So if Mary didn't have disordered passions like the rest of us then it seems she would have found avoiding sin significantly easier than the rest of us...
[/quote]

Our Lady (if I am not mistaken) was free from original sin, but not from the effects thereof.

[OraProMe]

[quote name='Resurrexi' date='19 February 2010 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1266628465' post='2059728']
Our Lady (if I am not mistaken) was free from original sin, but not from the effects thereof.
[/quote]

How can one have the effects without the cause? That doesn't seem logical.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='OraProMe' date='19 February 2010 - 08:17 PM' timestamp='1266628624' post='2059731']
How can one have the effects without the cause? That doesn't seem logical.
[/quote]

Whether or not it seems logical to you, it is an ancient tradition of the Church that our Lady died before her Assumption. If she died, then she certainly experienced the effects of original sin.