Could Mary have sinned?

[scardella]

The guy on [url="http://www.catholic.com"]Catholic Answers[/url] this afternoon speculated that Mary only had the free choice between non-sins. He called it passe non piccare. (Is that how you spell it?)

[url="ftp://radio.catholic.com/calive/2005/MP3/ca051027.mp3"]Click here for an MP3 of the Show.[/url] It's about 10 minutes into the show.

His statement bothers me. The Immaculate Conception states that she was born w/out Original Sin. I don't see why it would limit her ability to choose to sin. It would seem that she would have been bound to accept the Announcement by Gabriel if that were the case. The passage in Luke implies this difficulty in making the decision that shouldn't be there if it were not her choice.

Therefore, I think that she was in the same state as Adam and Eve, pre-fall, where she could have sinned, but she did not have the stain of sin, nor the disorder of the passions that Original Sin effects. That sort of understanding may be supplemented by various saints' saying that Mary was the "new Eve."

So, what do YOU think?

[Didacus]

Those who do not have the ability to sin experience a greater freedom than those who can. i believe Mary had such 'greater' freedom, in that she was incapable of sinning.

[Era Might]

Yes, she could have sinned. To deny such would be to deny her humanity. Your distinctions vis a vis original sin and concupiscence are correct.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Didacus' date='Oct 28 2005, 06:47 AM']Those who do not have the ability to sin experience a greater freedom than those who can.  i believe Mary had such 'greater' freedom, in that she was incapable of sinning.
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??? Who has not had the ability? I guess I see it differently. Mary did not sin by God's grace. She most certainly endured temptation but did not fail ever ONLY because of the grace of God. This had to have been her will in complete union with God's will. Thus I think it had to be will against temptation rather than just passive inability to sin. Most certainly satan tried to bring her under the power of sin as well as her son.

[Aloysius]

Mary was the New Eve. it was her role to make the choice either to accept the will of God where Eve had rejected the will of God. she could have rejected it, she could have sinned. without the possibility that she could have sinned, there is no reason for her to be sinless in the first place because then she wouldn't have been in the pre-fall state becoming the New Eve.

[Thumper]

The Catholic theologian, Karl Rahner, had an interesting insight into this--though perhaps I find it interesting because I agree!

Basically, he affirmed the Church's teaching on the Immaculate Conception, but noted that Mary's preservation from sin did not remove the need for her to continually choose to be obedient to and cooperative with God throughout her life. The fact that her free will remained intact, and yet that she did not sin, makes her an amazing example of the power of God's grace. It also makes her the example of Christian discipleship par excellence.

It is hard to consider Mary as a model for discipleship if she was preserved from sin in such a way that she lost her free will--where, then, would the comparison between her life and mine be? Rather, if she is preserved from sin, but still has to choose to follow Christ, I can find in her the hope that God's grace is truly redemptive, and that a human being totally in love with God in Christ can indeed choose to live in holiness.

[Proud2BCatholic139]

No,

what I beleive, is that mary was concieved without original sin.
There fore, she could have never sinned. Pure of heart. She is the Mother of God. As being the mother of God, she was sinless.

[Benedict]

[quote]what I beleive, is that mary was concieved without original sin.
There fore, she could have never sinned.[/quote]
Eve was created without original sin. She sinned.

[scardella]

[quote name='Proud2BCatholic139' date='Oct 28 2005, 08:15 AM']No,

what I beleive, is that mary was concieved without original sin.
There fore, she could have never sinned. Pure of heart. She is the Mother of God. As being the mother of God, she was sinless.
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Note that nobody (so far) has claimed that she had sinned, but that she COULD have sinned.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Thumper' date='Oct 28 2005, 07:48 AM']It is hard to consider Mary as a model for discipleship if she was preserved from sin in such a way that she lost her free will--where, then, would the comparison between her life and mine be?  Rather, if she is preserved from sin, but still has to choose to follow Christ, I can find in her the hope that God's grace is truly redemptive, and that a human being totally in love with God in Christ can indeed choose to live in holiness.
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Yep.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Proud2BCatholic139' date='Oct 28 2005, 09:15 AM']No,

what I beleive, is that mary was concieved without original sin.
There fore, she could have never sinned. Pure of heart. She is the Mother of God. As being the mother of God, she was sinless.
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But because of free will she could have sinned if she had wanted to.

[termitescoming4u!]

i agree with cmotherofpirl's reply.

[ofpheritup]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Oct 28 2005, 09:40 AM']But because of free will she could have sinned if she had wanted to.
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She had the same free will we have.

[Cam42]

Could Mary have sinned?

Quite simply put, NO. Regardless of what personal opinion is on the matter, the Church teaches that Mary could not have sinned. Why?

The reason that she could not have sinned is because she was preserved from these defects by God’s grace; from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings.

We should look to Luke 1:28;

[quote] et ingressus angelus ad eam dixit have gratia plena Dominus tecum benedicta tu in mulieribus[/quote]

That is an important understanding. She is full of grace. It is not the same as when we are baptized, the relationship of God's Grace to Mary is totally different and unique. It is a characteristic of Mary. It is part of her being. She is not eveloped in it as we are. The sanctifying grace is not given sacramentally, as it is with you and I, but rather it was granted from the moment of conception.

Her will was illumined and supported by this special grace from the moment of her conception. Another way of looking at it, she was endowed with sanctifying grace from the moment of her conception to the moment of her death, unceasingly.

This might seem as though her free will would be in some way compromised, but that could not be farther from the truth. Her free will cooperated completely and fully with God at all times. It was part of the endowment of sanctifying grace. It was freely given and was freely accepted at the moment of conception. Hence the Immaculate Conception.

Let's look to Luke 1:38;

[quote]dixit autem Maria ecce ancilla Domini fiat mihi secundum verbum tuum et discessit ab illa angelus[/quote]

and Luke 2:35;

[quote]et tuam ipsius animam pertransiet gladius ut revelentur ex multis cordibus cogitationes[/quote]

Finally, look at Galations 4:4;

[quote]unum corpus et unus spiritus sicut vocati estis in una spe vocationis vestrae[/quote]

There are some who argue that this can't be the case, but looking at this from a Catholic point of view she is the prototypical Christian. She is what we strive to be as Christians.

Her Magnificat is appropos:

[quote name='Luke 1:46-55']et ait Maria magnificat anima mea Dominum et exultavit spiritus meus in Deo salutari meo quia respexit humilitatem ancillae suae ecce enim ex hoc beatam me dicent omnes generationes quia fecit mihi magna qui potens est et sanctum nomen eius et misericordia eius in progenies et progenies timentibus eum fecit potentiam in brachio suo dispersit superbos mente cordis sui deposuit potentes de sede et exaltavit humiles esurientes implevit bonis et divites dimisit inanes suscepit Israhel puerum suum memorari misericordiae sicut locutus est ad patres nostros Abraham et semini eius in saecula[/quote]

It was her free giving of herself at her conception that is a witness to the fact that she could not have sinned. Why, because of her free giving of her will she told sin no, and yes to God at her conception....Totus Tuus.

N.B. The Latin usage is simply for accuracy's sake. It is easier to show the strength of the words in Sacred Scripture.

[ofpheritup]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Oct 28 2005, 07:04 PM']

It was her free giving of herself at her conception that is a witness to the fact that she could not have sinned.  Why, because of her free giving of her will she told sin no, and yes to God at her conception....Totus Tuus.

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I do not understand. How could Mary give herself to God at the moment of her conception? She was like what, seconds old.
Where is this in scripture? HELP.

Are you sure we are not talking about Jesus' conception?