dairygirl4u2c Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 I found it interesting that a majority said it would be reasonble to not become a catholic even after reading everything on phatmass. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359[/url] Are you saying this because you think conversion is more than intellectual or.. What about the fact that the reading would one would think steer one to somehow into the CC.. Are you thinking that it's ultimately by faith that one becomes Catholic? What are those reasonable reasons that you were thinking of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 is there a reasonable reason for posting all these polls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardella Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Oct 26 2005, 09:23 PM']I found it interesting that a majority said it would be reasonble to not become a catholic even after reading everything on phatmass. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359[/url] Are you saying this because you think conversion is more than intellectual or.. What about the fact that the reading would one would think steer one to somehow into the CC.. Are you thinking that it's ultimately by faith that one becomes Catholic? What are those reasonable reasons that you were thinking of? [right][snapback]771509[/snapback][/right] [/quote] It's very simple, just like the parable of the sower. There's plenty of evidence to support all the teachings and authority of the church. It can get everything it needs to survive. However, some people refuse to hear, some are choked out by worries of the world, the flesh, or the devil, some have been so maltreated or conditioned that Catholicism is alien or evil to them, even if they study it. Is that reasonable? Some things are, some aren't. Additionally, you're right about one thing, we're not purely rational beings. We have physical, spiritual, intellectual, emotional and social dimensions. Catholicism addresses them all. A scouring of Phatmass, however, does not cover it all. So, to answer you, yes and no. One can make compelling/brilliant arguments, but that does not address the whole of our being. The conversion process itself is a mystery, because, ultimately, each man is a mystery, and someone's faith is that the center of that mystery. I might also add that grace is a large component here, and grace is a mystery as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tojo Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Conversion is the work of the Holy Spirit, not of phatmass, though He could choose to use phatmass as one of the ways He draws someone home to the Church, if He wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Oct 26 2005, 10:23 PM']I found it interesting that a majority said it would be reasonble to not become a catholic even after reading everything on phatmass. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359[/url] Are you saying this because you think conversion is more than intellectual or.. What about the fact that the reading would one would think steer one to somehow into the CC.. Are you thinking that it's ultimately by faith that one becomes Catholic? What are those reasonable reasons that you were thinking of? [right][snapback]771509[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Phatmass provides discussion of the truth, but GOD provides the GRACE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1337 k4th0l1x0r Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Oct 26 2005, 09:23 PM']I found it interesting that a majority said it would be reasonble to not become a catholic even after reading everything on phatmass. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359[/url] Are you saying this because you think conversion is more than intellectual or.. What about the fact that the reading would one would think steer one to somehow into the CC.. Are you thinking that it's ultimately by faith that one becomes Catholic? What are those reasonable reasons that you were thinking of? [right][snapback]771509[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I refuse to speculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dspen2005 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 [quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Oct 26 2005, 10:23 PM']I found it interesting that a majority said it would be reasonble to not become a catholic even after reading everything on phatmass. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=41359[/url] Are you saying this because you think conversion is more than intellectual or.. What about the fact that the reading would one would think steer one to somehow into the CC.. Are you thinking that it's ultimately by faith that one becomes Catholic? What are those reasonable reasons that you were thinking of? [right][snapback]771509[/snapback][/right] [/quote] actually only 17 said "no", the other answered in a different manner -- 13 yes, 11 refusing to speculate, and 9 who do not know -- so, you can't make the judgement that the "majority", when in fact it is not the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cow of Shame Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 perhaps her hidden agenda is to see how much we know about statistics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scardella Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 [quote name='Cow of Shame' date='Oct 28 2005, 01:39 AM']perhaps her hidden agenda is to see how much we know about statistics [right][snapback]772683[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Hrm... maybe you should do a t-test to see if her claim is claimable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cow of Shame Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 [quote name='scardella' date='Oct 28 2005, 09:06 AM']Hrm... maybe you should do a t-test to see if her claim is claimable... [right][snapback]772760[/snapback][/right] [/quote] don't you threaten me! I've left those skills way behind me heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatty07 Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Can we rephrase the question: "Are we so amazingly brilliant and holy that anyone who reads what we write must be irrational not to instantly convert to our Faith?" I find the survey heartening...I'd sure worry about anyone that arrogant. It doesn't presume a defect in the Faith to admit that we don't have very big brains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BCatholic139 Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 Most of the reasons why I hear people whom I know are not Catholic anymore is because... The Pope....they don't agree with him. The Mass...How it is so long. Lack of Faith....in the Eurchrist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted November 7, 2005 Share Posted November 7, 2005 [quote name='beatty07' date='Nov 3 2005, 11:56 AM']Can we rephrase the question: "Are we so amazingly brilliant and holy that anyone who reads what we write must be irrational not to instantly convert to our Faith?" I find the survey heartening...I'd sure worry about anyone that arrogant. It doesn't presume a defect in the Faith to admit that we don't have very big brains. [right][snapback]777850[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That is a really good way of putting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelFilo Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 Conversion isn't just intellectual. Some start theri conversion to Catholicism long before they hear a single Catholic arguement, still others will start their conversion from the intellectual arguement, which will let way to the spiritual conversion. Phatmass has the intellectual down, I think; although I found it to lack the comprehensiveness that I wanted and so ended up going to some other sources; but on an intellectual level, Phatmass should be almost sufficient to at least comprehend and possibly accept the possibility of the Catholic Faith to be true. God bless, Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 I choose not to be catholic because I dont trust organized religion. And seeing as things like the crusades, the inquisition, and slavery seemed to have been connected to catholics, I dont trust it that much more. I remember being berated by CCD teachers as a youth when I would question them. I have no idea what religion, or faith I belong to, but I keep an open enough mind to listen, and discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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