Aloysius Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 it's the traditional Catholic principal of expiation. first off, when someone who has really murdered receives the death penalty it is always justice. he forfeited the right to his own life and the state has the right thus to take his life. we may advise the state not to do it so often et cetera et cetera, but ultimately when it happens, it was the state's right to do it and the criminal's deserved punishment. that's justice. but the pricnipal of expiation is that someone faced with the death penalty ought to repent and ACCEPT their just punishment. that is the most noble thing to do when sentenced to death. this guy converted in face of a death penalty. good. he may have not nobly accepted his punishment which would be more meritorious, but he has truly repented and tried to make ammends. it would be well within the states rights to wave the just penalty of death in this case. it would probably be the best thing for them to do. it would not necessarily be unjust for them to continue with the execution, however. I don't think they should, but they theoretically could and if they did then the process of his conversion and expiation in the face of the death penalty will be complete in his acceptence of the just punishment. [quote]Especially the old, old ones about blood and blood’s repayment.[/quote] Actually, Christ affirmed blood's repayment. I see nowhere where he 'turns it insideout'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted October 27, 2005 Author Share Posted October 27, 2005 [quote name='Sojourner' date='Oct 27 2005, 04:15 PM']Are you writing from the beyond? "It didn't seem important while I was living" [right][snapback]772165[/snapback][/right] [/quote] <----------- me. <------------- you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 [quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Oct 27 2005, 03:44 PM'] <----------- me. <------------- you. [right][snapback]772205[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toledo_jesus Posted October 27, 2005 Author Share Posted October 27, 2005 [quote name='Sojourner' date='Oct 27 2005, 04:47 PM'] [right][snapback]772211[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Moohooohahhahahahahahahahahhaa!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RC_ Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 [quote name='Sojourner' date='Oct 27 2005, 02:01 PM'] I don't think it's realistic for us to claim that we're executing people in order to convert them. We're doing it out of a sense of retributive justice. [right][snapback]772107[/snapback][/right] [/quote] CONVERT OR DIE!!! is not a good world view... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 I support the judicious use of the death penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avemaria40 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 i am antideath penalty. I believe mercy is for everyone, including hardened criminals and we should just let God be the one who judges them. I'm for life inprisonment if that is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 [quote name='Aloysius' date='Oct 27 2005, 03:35 PM']Actually, Christ affirmed blood's repayment. I see nowhere where he 'turns it insideout'. [right][snapback]772190[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Really? [quote name='Matthew5:38-42 (NIV)']38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dspen2005 Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 (edited) [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Oct 27 2005, 09:50 AM']I believe in the death penalty, because if you take a life you owe a life. That is justice. That must always be tempered with mercy and good common sense. Let the guy out of jail. [right][snapback]771729[/snapback][/right] [/quote] seems that you are wanting to believe in an absolute -- but in an unabsolute manner.... can't have it both ways... Edited October 28, 2005 by dspen2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth was never about the death penalty in the first place, it is the limit to what extent justice could go. meaning if it's taken an eye, justice could not take any more than an eye. turning the other cheek, in Christ's time, was an insult. it was like "is that all you got". to turn the other cheek shows trust in Christ's power. it's not saying that justice shouldn't be served, it means that if someone personally attacking you it is a virtuous act to not resist to give testimony to Christ's power. defending the innocent with justice, including the just use of the death penalty, is also virtuous. Christ does not take issue with "whosoever sheddeth a man's blood, by man shall HIs blood be shed". He affirms it with not taking issue with the statement of the Good Theif to the Bad Theif "you and I deserve this punishment..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Advocating for the death penalty on behalf of expiation is not a valid reason for to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 [quote name='dspen2005' date='Oct 27 2005, 10:19 PM']seems that you are wanting to believe in an absolute -- but in an unabsolute manner.... can't have it both ways... [right][snapback]772470[/snapback][/right] [/quote] sure I can. I don't think the death penalty should be administered for every case, but reserved for particularly heinous crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 Al, Did you read the entire article I linked to earlier, or just the quote I pulled from it? I'd actually be interested to hear your thoughts on his entire argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 28, 2005 Share Posted October 28, 2005 I believe I've read it before actually. and I think last time I did take issue with the idea that Christ turned inside out the concept of blood for blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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