Christian community in suburbia

[Sojourner]

[url="http://www.mirrorofjustice.com/mirrorofjustice/2005/10/community_in_su.html"]A post from Mirror of Justice[/url] addresses a topic I've been dealing with since I became Catholic -- a lack of fellowship in the Catholic church.

I can give a hearty "amen" to everything Rob Vischer says in this post. Here's a sampling:

[quote]As a Catholic, I am consistently surprised by how quickly the church empties after each Mass (beginning before the Mass even ends, as some folks begin to file out once they get communion).  At least at the parishes I've attended, there is very little socializing that occurs.  In fact, in the many parishes I've visited, no one has ever stopped me to introduce themselves, asked me if I'm a visitor, or made any effort to reach out to me unless I initiate a conversation.[/quote]
and
[quote]When I've asked longtime Catholics about the apparent lack of community surrounding the Mass, the response I usually get is, "Well, the mass is primarily about worship, not socializing.  The socializing traditionally occurs during the week."  That approach might have facilitated community-building in urban ethnic enclaves, but it doesn't cut it anymore in suburbia when folks disperse to their isolated existences without even a Sunday-morning experience of community (much less a Sunday-night or Wednesday-night experience) to fall back on.[/quote]

Most Sundays, I attend urban parishes, and I find the same thing is true even there, probably because the ethnic conclaves he references don't, for the most part, exist in the city I live in, outside of Hispanic groups. And oddly enough, I've gotten the warmest reception when I've gone to Spanish Masses -- probably because it's obvious that I'm an outsider.

Otherwise, the sense of community I get is almost non-existent. I know there are pockets of people who hang out, but there doesn't seem to be a network of folks who take care of one another and who like spending time together.

In contrast, the (urban) Protestant church I attended immediately before converting is just [b]bursting[/b] with community. People buy houses down the street from one another. I STILL get in trouble if I don't ask for help from one of them when I need it. Just as one example, not long after I became Catholic, someone had a baby. I asked who was coordinating meals for the family, and all I got were blank stares. In contrast, I'm still on the list of people who provide meals at my former church for folks who've had babies -- just did one last week, in fact -- and I know that if I had a baby, lots of those folks would make meals for my family -- even though I haven't been part of that church for two years, and left them to become *gasp* Catholic.

What gives? Where's the love?

[photosynthesis]

I feel the exact same way. Even at my college campus, where we usually only have about 10-15 people a week, the usual routine is... sing the last hymn, then rush to shake Father's hand, tell him you liked his homily, and run out the door.

The truth is, most parishes I've been a part of are GIGANTIC. They usually have about 6 masses per weekend, and a lot of times people don't attend the same Mass on a regular basis. One week, I might go to 5pm Saturday Mass, and the next week I'm going to noon Mass on Sunday. Often, the people I see at a regular parish Mass are not the same people I saw last Sunday. Whereas in Protestant churches, they tend to have only one or two services... so while there is less selection for church times, you see the same people every week.

We can't have community unless there's some element of predictability. I think when I graduate and get settled in with a parish, I am going to try to pick a Mass time and commit to it. Also, most of the parishes I've been to tend to have no activities that are appropriate for young adults. It's always Bingo Nights, 10am Bible Studies (what about the folks who have real jobs??) and retreats that I can't afford to go on.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Oct 25 2005, 01:30 PM']And oddly enough, I've gotten the warmest reception when I've gone to Spanish Masses -- probably because it's obvious that I'm an outsider.
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I agree! Whenever I go to Spanish masses people are always very nice to me!

[quote]Well, the mass is primarily about worship, not socializing.[/quote]
It is. I certainly DON'T go to Mass for fellowship. I go for the Eucharist, and in the Eucharist we have more unity than we ever can through a parish spaghetti dinner or a football game. At the same time, I often feel like I am worshipping with total strangers and I feel unwanted a lot of the time. I think it's possible for parishes to make people feel welcome and wanted without getting touchy feely or overly sentimental. A lot of Protestant churches I've been to overemphasize fellowship. Does anyone else think it's silly how some Protestants use the word "fellowship" as a verb? Like, "I go to church to worship and to fellowship with other believers." That drives me nuts. Anyway... Mass should be centered on the Eucharist, but our unity in the Eucharist should be evident in the way we treat each other. St. Paul said, "Greet one another with a holy kiss." How often do we see that happen in parishes?

[Sojourner]

In discussions I've had with folks before, one thing that keeps coming up is that Catholic churches aren't as focused on teaching members as Protestants are. We tend to be primarily sacramental communities, coming together at significant life moments (birth, marriage, death) but virtually ignoring one another during the rest of it.

In Protestant churches I've been part of, much of the fellowship time centers around teaching in one form or another -- you come for worship, and stick around for donuts afterwards. You are involved in a Bible study. Parents and kids alike go to Sunday School. Protestant churches have all these mechanisms for teaching people about faith, in all stages of life. Catholic churches seem to have CCD, but then nothing after confirmation -- am I wrong on this? There seems to be little to no emphasis on ongoing catechesis and helping people actually grow in faith through building relationships within the church.

[Era Might]

Protestant Churches tend to be localized. The "Ebenezer First Wesleyan Tabernacle House of God in Christ the Messiah of God" Church, as an example, would be attended by those who have taken to its message, and usually has one minister who is the main draw.

The Catholic "sensus" is very much universal. There's a Catholic Church in every city, usually more. The local parish isn't the end-all of our ecclesial life, as it would be for Ebenezer parishioners. Our Liturgy isn't drawn up by the community, our leadership extends to foreign lands, and our bretheren in the same ecclesial faith are a dime a dozen.

If Ebenezer Church doesn't cultivate an intense interpersonal atmosphere, it will die off. There's no Ebenezer parishioners in the next city dropping by; there's no ecclesial relationship with a local Bishop or a Pope. They are all they have.

Catholics know that their ecclesial atmosphere is greater in scope. There are a billion Catholics in the world. Our ecclesial existence will not end because everyone in the parish does not have intimate friendships. Our bonding comes through our shared faith. People join, say, the Legion of Christ in the parish, or volunteer to go to the soup kitchen. It is in this context we bond, because we are not closed in on ourselves as a parish, but we are united in the same Catholic mission.

The Liturgical differences between Catholics and Protestants also comes into play, as you note. Protestants are very much a Word-oriented people. Catholics are Sacramental. It's just two different worlds.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Oct 25 2005, 01:55 PM']In discussions I've had with folks before, one thing that keeps coming up is that Catholic churches aren't as focused on teaching members as Protestants are. We tend to be primarily sacramental communities, coming together at significant life moments (birth, marriage, death) but virtually ignoring one another during the rest of it.

In Protestant churches I've been part of, much of the fellowship time centers around teaching in one form or another -- you come for worship, and stick around for donuts afterwards. You are involved in a Bible study. Parents and kids alike go to Sunday School. Protestant churches have all these mechanisms for teaching people about faith, in all stages of life. Catholic churches seem to have CCD, but then nothing after confirmation -- am I wrong on this? There seems to be little to no emphasis on ongoing catechesis and helping people actually grow in faith through building relationships within the church.
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Some parishes have adult faith formation programs...although I think those are pretty rare. I've never really been in one. and of course, there's RCIA, but that is really a sacramental prep program. I've heard of people going to RCIA as adults, but it's not for everyone. I entered the Catholic Church the 'normal' way, as a child, but never embraced the Faith until I got older... Even though I *could* go to RCIA to grow in my faith, it's really not geared towards people who are already Catholic, so it would be weird, no matter how you look at it.

I did go to one Catholic church where I saw real community. It was tiny parish in McDowell County, West Virginia, where I was on a missions trip. The parish served the entire county, and they only had one Mass per week. The area was very poor, and because of their poverty, I think parishioners were forced to be more dependent upon one another. After Mass, everyone gathered together for a big breakfast... and it was mighty tasty! I'd never been to a Catholic parish before where they gave you food afterwards.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Oct 25 2005, 02:13 PM']Protestant Churches tend to be localized. The "Ebenezer First Wesleyan Tabernacle House of God in Christ the Messiah of God" Church, as an example, would be attended by those who have taken to its message, and usually has one minister who is the main draw.

The Catholic "sensus" is very much universal. There's a Catholic Church in every city, usually more. The local parish isn't the end-all of our ecclesial life, as it would be for Ebenezer parishioners. Our Liturgy isn't drawn up by the community, our leadership extends to foreign lands, and our bretheren in the same ecclesial faith are a dime a dozen.

If Ebenezer Church doesn't cultivate an intense interpersonal atmosphere, it will die off. There's no Ebenezer parishioners in the next city dropping by; there's no ecclesial relationship with a local Bishop or a Pope. They are all they have.

Catholics know that their ecclesial atmosphere is greater in scope. There are a billion Catholics in the world. Our ecclesial existence will not end because everyone in the parish does not have intimate friendships. Our bonding comes through our shared faith. People join, say, the Legion of Christ in the parish, or volunteer to go to the soup kitchen. It is in this context we bond, because we are not closed in on ourselves as a parish, but we are united in the same Catholic mission.

The Liturgical differences between Catholics and Protestants also comes into play, as you note. Protestants are very much a Word-oriented people. Catholics are Sacramental. It's just two different worlds.
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"Ebenezer First Wesleyan Tabernacle House of God in Christ the Messiah of God" Church That's funny

The sense of connectedness I get in the Catholic Church is wonderful. I love knowing that even in other countries, our liturgy is the same... I love not being separated from others because of language... even if the liturgy is in a different language, I can still follow it. The Eucharist truly unites people all over the world, not just parishes, and that is one of the coolest things about being Catholic.

At the same time, we should not be strangers. A parish should be like a family, where people love one another sacrificially. F.A.M.I.L.Y means "Forget About Me, I Love You!"

[Era Might]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Oct 25 2005, 02:20 PM']At the same time, we should not be strangers.  A parish should be like a family, where people love one another sacrificially.  F.A.M.I.L.Y means "Forget About Me, I Love You!"
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Also, perhaps, we need to do a better job practically. A lot of Catholic parishes are great for senior citizens. Bingo, pot luck dinners, packaging gifts for little kids. What else do they have to do with their time?

Maybe if there was a more explicit young presence, it wouldn't be so bad.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Oct 25 2005, 02:27 PM']Also, perhaps, we need to do a better job practically. A lot of Catholic parishes are great for senior citizens. Bingo, pot luck dinners, packaging gifts for little kids. What else do they have to do with their time?

Maybe if there was a more explicit young presence, it wouldn't be so bad.
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That's for sure.. I get frustrated at my NJ parish because there's nothing for me there (i mean, except mass) and no one knows me as Claire, I'm always "edna's granddaughter".

[Thumper]

Very interesting topic, Sojourner. I know I struggle with this myself--both in not experiencing the community, but also at times in shying away from participating in the community when the opportunity arises.

While it's very true that Catholics are primarily oriented to sacrament, rather than word, that still means that the grace effected by the sacraments become manifest concretely in our lives and relationships. It can be tempting to fall back on the idea (the wonderful, absolutely mind-blowing idea) that we are united in a supreme way with God and each other in the Eucharist. The problem is that we can then use the sacrament as an excuse for why we don't have to step outside of ourselves and really form relationships with other people outside of the liturgy.

Ain't nothing wrong with fellowship--it helps shows the world what the Eucharist means.

[tojo]

In RCIA they warned us about this. "You're going to think our churches are big and cold and mean." To an extent, they were right. I'm very lucky that I get to be part of the student parishioners' fellowship at my university's student parish, it makes a big difference.

[cmotherofpirl]

This is in some ways a new area. It used to be [back in the day] you lived in a catholic culture. You went to catholic school, sang in the catholic church choir, played in the church bowling league and attended church bingo. Your social life revolved around the church. You were immersed in a catholic life.
This era has passed, but we have no created a new culture to replace it.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Oct 25 2005, 04:35 PM']This is in some ways a new area. It used to be [back in the day] you lived in a catholic culture. You went to catholic school, sang in the catholic church  choir, played in the church bowling league and attended church bingo. Your social life revolved around the church. You were immersed in a catholic life.
This era has passed, but we have no created a new culture to replace it.
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That's a good point.

Also, families are supposed to be "the Domestic Church." People used to recieve a lot of catechesis at home. Unfortunately, many families aren't living up to that title.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Oct 25 2005, 03:38 PM']That's a good point.

Also, families are supposed to be "the Domestic Church."  People used to recieve a lot of catechesis at home.  Unfortunately, many families aren't living up to that title.
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Well, and in my situation I don't have a family to be a "domestic church." My parents aren't so much interested in catechizing me as a Catholic.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Oct 25 2005, 01:13 PM']There's no Ebenezer parishioners in the next city dropping by; there's no ecclesial relationship with a local Bishop or a Pope. They are all they have.
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True in some cases, but not in all. Most mainstream Protestant denominations actually do have fairly extensive church governance systems that spread beyond the walls of the local church and involve some sort of oversight by denominational leaders. In most cases it's not as hierarchical as the Catholic church (Anglicans/Episcopalians being the exception) but there is oversight.