Results Of A Sex Survey

[traichuoi]

Traichuoi,

First you have not read my last post on the other thread where I agreed with a woman having up to 2 partners may be ok.

Frank,

sorry i did read your post AFTER i posted in here

[Norseman82]

i believer your words were not about compatibility but:

that doesn't sound like discernment of compatibility...to make the assertion that mixed marriages shouldn't exist is judgemental...putting judgement on the repentant sinner.

Then what about the scandal aspect...the possibility of someone getting a message "hey, it pays more to sin?"

If the price of fighting scandal is being accused of judgementalism and self-righteousness, THEN I BEAR THE ACCUSATION PROUDLY!!!!!!!

[traichuoi]

it's not scandal! scandal would be to teach against Truth. By marrying a non-Virgin you are not teaching that pre-marital sex is okay. In what context would you be saying that? If that's what you believe then you shouldn't marry anyone who isn't perfect. Otherwise, if you married any sinner (which is any woman), you'd be saying all their sins are okay? Your logic and reason is fallible.

[Jake Huether]

Frank and Norseman,

I have found some of your comments to be self-righteous liken to that of the Scribes and the Pharisees.  Self-righteousness breeds contempt.  Those people who have sinned and repented are of no less value than virgins (who sin on their own part).  You are talking about the dignity of human persons...no one is less valuable in the eyes of God.  Of course virginity is a great virtue, but no one chooses another person based on whether or not they are a virgin.  you choose another person based on what God's will is for your relationship.  What you have stated about choosing virgins over non-virgins as being the more prudent choice is self-righteousness in true form.  That is your own moral belief and not that of true Morally right beliefs...hence, i use the word "self-righteousness."

By disregarding non-Virgins who have repented and are living chaste lives you are disregarding Christ's forgiveness for that person...in that, you created your own righteousness.  non-virgins who have repented recognize "they're not self-sufficient."  If Jesus has compassion on the sexual sinners...how can you deny them compassion?

I see what you're saying. But then again, God's WILL is that we all are vigins when we get married. His will is that we all are SINNLESS. period. God permits it otherwise, but to say it would be His actually WILL (not merely a passive or permissive Will) is to say that God WILL's sin.

That being said, we do all make mistakes. While one's mistake may be sexually related, anothers might be anger or malice. If one repents, then their slate is clean (so to speak).

However, sexual sin pulls much weight: It isn't like theft or anger or jealousy or any other sin really. Once you have sex you can never ever ever erase the sensation, the emotion, the experience, the physical changes, the emotional changes.

These are things that BELONG to a husband. And for a guy to request this from his wife is not self-righteouse. It is righteouse. Virginity belongs to your spouse. To expect it to belong to you is not only right, it actually should be a non-issue. God has WILLED it. We shouldn't even have to expect or request it. It should just BE.

I don't think it is Self-righteousness at all! One following the WILL (that is the actuall WILL- as conveyed through His Church's Teachigns) of God and preserving their own virginity until marriage has every right to want (in fact, it is RIGHT that they want) a person equally preserved for themselves.

The beautiy of a free will, is we can freely cooperate with God's will. If I freely will not to care about my future wive's virginity and I marry a virtuous non-virgin, then God will permit that. It is unfortunate for me, because I've really given up what God had willed for me (that I SHARE virginty with my wife). I freely gave that gift up. Now, there are many other things that wives give us. I'm not shortchanging what "wife" means. But the fact is, there is one thing that a non-virgin can NOT give you.

To sum:

When God invented marriage, He purposed that man and wife exchange certain gifts. These gifts shouldn't even have to be expected or asked for. Since God WILLED it, it should just BE. But sinful humans (dummies that we are) freely choose to give these gifts to people other than our spouses. And we freely choose to accept less than ALL these gifts when we do get married. God permits this. But He WILLs that we are able to accept and give ALL these gifts.

The two things that I freely chose to require of my wife were 1) she be Catholic and 2) she be a virgin. Of course, in the prosess of our relationship I also was very happy that her other qualityes tickled my fancy and complimented my qualities. But the 2 main NEEDs (which really, in accordance with the WILL of God, shouldn't have to be needs) had to be met.

God honors this. If you are looking for a wife who is a virgin, etc. (things that are what God wills for ALL humanity) then if marriage is God's calling for you, God will be more than happy to oblige.

People shouldn't have to lower their standards to occomodate other's free will choice to give certain gifts away (even if they are mistakes). In the large picture, in fact, if guys and girls who want to marry virgins don't lower their standards, this might be an effective way of making others think twise about giving it up.

[Jake Huether]

By marrying a non-Virgin you are not teaching that pre-marital sex is okay.  In what context would you be saying that?

Well, I don't know about scandle. But it might be looked at like this:

Virginity is a gift. A gift for a spouse. You will be giving your wife a gift, a reward so to speak, for promising to be with you forever.

You in turn are given nothing.

Edit: not nothing as in NOTHING. But in regards to virginity anyway...

The one who gave their gift away actually is rewarded. While the one who held strong and presented his wife with a most powerful and beautiful gift, get's nothing in return.

Maybe that sounded selfish. But it shouldn't. God wills it to be a give / recieve Sacramental end cap. It consumates a Sacramental covenant.