Apologetic Diagrams

[Aloysius]

i'm gonna take this thread and post all my kewl kewl diagrams which explain Church teachings. this will give you all a quick reference to the famous Aloysius Diagrams B)

also, feel free to come up with your own, draw them in paint, save them as a JPEG, and upload them here.

please try to keep this thread klean from too much chit-chat, unless you have beef with something in my diagram and can PROVE IT, not just ARGUE AGAINST IT, with Church Teaching. cuz it can't be a debate. so if something's wrong here, run over to the Reading Room, open your Bible and Catechism, get onto the Vatican's website, and refute it to the point where i believe u. if i don't agree with you, i'll jump into the debate table and start a thread to argue against u. anyway... get ready for some diagram madness B)

[Aloysius]

errr.... maybe images can't be attached anymore???? :unsure:

[Aloysius]

OK, old skewl PhatMass diagram... made with text.

the line is a time line, notice it goes infinitely forward and backwards.

<-------------------Father--------------->

<-------------------Son------------------>

Now, the Son is "eternally beggotten" of the Father. What exactly does this mean? This means that at every single point in time, infinitely forwards and backwards, the Son is being beggotten of the Father. I will pick a couple random points to show what i mean.

The I's are sposedta be lines. At each line, the Son is being begotton.

<-------------------Father--------------->

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I

<-----SON BEING BEGOTTON---------->

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I

<-------------------Son------------------>

beginning to see three sections in this diagram?

every line from the Father to the Son is the Father begetting the Son. A line of begetting will thus exist between these two lines at every single point. Why does this occur? Well, God is love, i think we both agree on that, right? Well, then God must have something to love. It is in His nature. God existed always, infinitely backwards in time as well as forwards. Humans and Angels are created beings. They did not always exist. What did He love before humans and angels? His only begotten son. The Son is eternal. THe Son is thus God. He must love also. Thus He loves the Father for all eternity. And so, the reason for the Father beggetting the Son is the infinite love between the Father and the Son. God is Love, i'll say it again. Thus, Love is God. THe infinite Love between the Father and the Son is thus God.

now we see the three persons of the diagram. Every line is where the Holy Spirit exists.

<-------------------Father--------------->

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I

<--b---b----b-------Holy Spirit-----b--b-->

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I

<-------------------Son------------------>

i threw in the random b's which mean the son being to show that through the Holy Spirit the beggeting of the Son is accomplished. The beggetting of the Son is a result of the Holy Spirit, which is the Love of the Father and Son, which is a result of the beggetting of the Son. These b's should rightfully be at ever single point of the line, as the lines down should rightfully be at ever single point in the line, basically makeing an infinite rectangle.

All three of those lines is eternal. But more than that, all three of those lines fill up EVERYTHING in space and time. How could that be? If one thing exists in EVERYTHING, there is no more room for something else to exist in EVERYTHING. THe only way it works, is because all three of those lines are ONE. thus they form a super gigantic line which is the basis of all existence.

<-----FatherSonandHolySpirit----->

While all this seems very complicated and well thought out (i should say well prayed-out, as i formulated this through long meditation and prayer about the trinity, the other product that came out of that was the chaplet i invented devoted entirely 2 the Blessed Trinity), it does not even begin to scratch the surface of the infinite mystery of God-- The Holy Trinity

alright here i shall sum up everything i said in case u missed something.

God is Love. God must Love for it is in His nature to love. Man and angel did not always exist. God always existed, forever forward in time, and forever backward in time. Thus, as His nature is to Love, His love always begets a Son to Love. The Son is also God. They both exist in EVERYTHING in time and space and are thus ONE. The Son is God, so He must Love also, Love is in the very nature of God. Thus the Son loves the Father because of the Father's love for the son. The Son is begotten because of the Father's Love for the Son. The Love between the father and the Son is infinite. God is Love, Love is God, the Third Person. All three are completely infinite and exist everywhere in space and time, and thus are ONE.

[Aloysius]

THEN, add Mary into the Mix

the basic diagram goes like this. b means the son is being begotten, and it should be on every single point on the lines, forwards and backwards. The I's are sposedta be lines. They should also be on every point, forwards and backwards. Ever line represents the Father betting the Son. The lines are basicall time lines representing all of existence, infinitely forward and backward. So at every point in History we can find the Father begetting the Son.

<-------------------Father--------------->

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I

<--b---b----b----Holy Spirit-----b--b-->

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I

<-------------------Son------------------>

now, let's focus on one specific time in History. about 3 bc or somethin like that. I think u all know what i'm talking about.

.......................................................3 b.c.

<-------------------Father------------I --->

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I

<--b---b----b-------Holy Spirit-----b --b-->

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I

<-------------------Son------------------>

*The bold part isn't just any being begotten of the father

right there, the Son was begotten of the Father through the HOly spirit as in every other instance, but He is also there begotten of Mary. Mary is caught up into the middle of the very mystery of the Trinity. THe Power of the Most High overshadows her. She is completely enveloped by the Power of the Most High which is the Holy Spirit which is what begets the Son. Mary is truely the Mother of God.

[phatcatholic]

dude, ur amesome, that's all i'm gonna say

[Aloysius]

thanx! B)

that seriously makes me pretty happy. thank you for that

alright i'm attempting to get images of diagrams up

EDIT:

well... never mind. this isn't uploading.

i havta figure out a way to get these diagrams online...

anyway, though, PhatCatholic, you're just as amesome :D

all my amesomeness is from my God B)

Edited December 5, 2003 by Aloysius

[phatcatholic]

Alo,

holla at dUSt and see if he can help you out, b/c i would love to have all of your diagrams in one location. that would be an invaluabe resource for our more visual learners!

diagrams Alo! Pronto! :D

pax christi,

nick

[Muschi]

Aloysius-

I don't mean to change topic of this thread but I wonder if you can help me.

(I tried to follow your diagrams and I blanked out. I guess the visual thing doesn't work for me, sorry, hope you aren't offended.)

But since you seem to be the "King of Polls", can you either make a poll or instruct me in how to do same? I want to know to what extent if any, the New Age Movement has hit respective dioceses throughout our country. I'm talking about things like Yoga, Centering Prayer, and things like the Enneagram being introduced in our Retreat Centers and prayer meetings. Can you help? Thanks in advance, either way - God bless! - Muschi

[VeraMaria]

wow, Al, those are amesome.

u rock! B)

guess i'm a visual person....i always understand things better.... :D

[CatholicAndFanatical]

yah al, same goes for me, I perfectly understood where you was coming from, excellent job bro. This is deep

[Aloysius]

:cool: thanx!

now, the rest can't be done (at least by me it just drives me nuts tryin) with text. therefore, without further adu...

http://staloysius.i8.com/Diagrams

Trinity as above

Divine tools of Revelation (PhatCatholic, if u wanna use this 1 for your ref. section either sacred tradition or sola scriptura, go ahead

[http://staloysius.i8.com/Diagrams/Vocation%20Diagram.htm]Vocations from a Spiritual View

[phatcatholic]

Alo,

i know you have others. are they going to be posted there too?

also, i have a question. i was looking at ur diagram for the triune God, and it appears as though you are claiming that the Father is constantly begetting the Son. is this true? i had always understood it as something that occurred before creation, but we don't know when b/c they both go back infinitely. but, u seem to be saying that the Father is constantly begetting the son, even now. i've never heard it defined that way before.

help me understand this like only u know how, brother.

pax,

phatcatholic

[Aloysius]

:cool: no prob..

i came up with this idea meditating on the nicean-Constantinople creed. the part that says "Eternally beggotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, True God from true God" (all those froms could be replaced with of's and the translation of the latin would still be right i'm pretty sure)

anyway, the way i figure it, the Son is God. The Father is God. They are both eternal, because God is eternal. The Nicean-Constantinople Creed professes the Son is beggotten, but NOT made. Therefore, you can't find any ONE point of the Son being born no matter how far back you go. that would mean He had been made. The nature of the Son is to be a Son, and the nature of sons are to be born.

anyway, it all comes from the eternally beggotten part. and then you can see it all fits into place there, because we know the Son is begotten through the Spirit, and He is begotten because of the Father's love. i donno, it's all very deep. but as i always say, i could be wrong and if i am CITE THE CHURCH and tell me

yeah, i got more diagrams. they'll all be posted there when i get the time to do it.

and next time i get bored in Spanish class, i'll prolly end up coming up with another one. :cool: