What does it mean to be white?

[Not The Philosopher]

The real question is: why do anime characters look white?

[r2Dtoo]

the point that race is a social construction is that socially constructed "race" revolves around skin tones... as one of my favorite anthropology professors always liked to point out, it'd be much more poignant to divide genetic races along the lines of those who are genetically prone to lactose intolerance than skin tones.  the point is it's arbitrary what particular genetic trait becomes a "race"--biology doesn't define that.  genes pass down a whole bunch of traits, but there's nothing in genetics that defines a distinction between "races"

 

attempts to distinguish "races" biologically around the historic lines we tend to draw them in have historically been steeped in racism and bad science... a more accurate understanding of genetics has mostly put a stop to such ridiculous ideas.

 

Anyone who thinks the worst genetic disorder that can occur more frequently in different races is lactose intolerance seriously needs to brush up on his medical knowledge.

 

Ultimately, there is no possible way you say that when you separate groups of people by continents for thousands of years those groups aren't going to develop different characteristics from each other.  Yes, there is no classification of "race" in science for homo sapiens or any other animal species for that matter, but that doesn't make the obvious somehow less obvious.

[Aloysius]

I didn't say it was 'the worst' genetic disorder, I said it is a more poignant genetic characteristic than skin tone, it much more significantly affects people than skin tone or hair color or eye color... which all affect people as much as each other (there's no "worst" skin tone either, btw, and there's of course, I'm sure you'd agree, no such thing as a "worst" race, along any socially constructed lines).  lactose intolerance was obviously purposefully chosen for the ridiculous nature of it, the point is that dividing the human race on an arbitrary characteristic is totally ridiculous.  choosing skin color is as ridiculous as choosing lactose intolerance... but if you want to go with visual stuff, it's also just as ridiculous as choosing hair color or eye color... they're all ridiculous ways to divide the human race, the only reason skin color is a more prominent way to do so is because of the historical political, social, and cultural factors that made it so.

 

there are of course many common characteristics for groups of people that have been divided by long distances for a very long time, but most of those characteristics do not tend to follow the standard socially constructed "race" groups (as those tend to be based on skin tone)

[Apotheoun]

This thread is inching closer and closer to the Lame Board every day.

[Aloysius]

??? this is a totally legitimate question, the idea of 'races' has caused a lot of problems throughout history, especially when people have argued that they are biological categories, which they most certainly are not.  'races' do 'exist', but they're all social constructions and need not be defined in any way except as societies choose to define them... and it's not the way 'gender' is a social construction, since that's actually based on the fundamental biological difference of sex (though it is of course socially elaborated in various ways in different societies) 

[Apotheoun]

Have a piece of sentient cake.   :cake:

[Era Might]

lol @ sentient cake.

[Apotheoun]

lol @ sentient cake.

I stole that from Selah.

[Era Might]

I stole that from Selah.

 

She does have a charming wit.

[r2Dtoo]

There is about as much differences between black people and white people as there are between German Shepards and French Poodles. That science is not too keen on pointing this out is merely because of history, not because they actually care about the truth.

As for my comments on lactose intolerance, I understood what you're anthropologist professor was trying to say. The point I was trying to make was that if you talked to a nurse or a doctor about race they would have brought up actual life threatening conditions(like sickle cell) that often do discrimate along racial lines. It's not a joke to define race along disease lines.

[Anastasia13]

The real question is: why do anime characters look white?

 

http://epicanthic.blogspot.com/2004/05/cosmetic-eye-surgery-in-korea.html

An interesting trend, the frequency of removing the epicanthic folds around the eyes in Korea.

[Anastasia13]

This thread is inching closer and closer to the Lame Board every day.

 

You have portions of blacks or possibly other ethnic groups talking about acting white-a controversial and prejorative term that can be applied to the same non-white ethnic group based on something like cultural and historic privileges, patterns, and restrictions.

 

I recently read something like 21% of whites have African ancestry, and a large amount of blacks are technically white but colored by ancestry.

 

We've had court cases in America for Syrians (white and not white results), Armenians (two cases white), Asian Indians (probably not white), Japanese (not white), Chinese (not white), Burmese (not white), Fillipinos (not white), Hawaiians (not white), half East Asian/half whites (not white both times), half Native American/half whites (not white), Mexicans (white).

 

Wikipedia notes: Under the U.S. Census definition and U.S. federal agency, individuals with ancestry from the Middle East and North Africa are considered white. The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission regulations also explicitly define white as "original peoples of Europe, North Africa, or the Middle East."^[73] Historically, Middle Eastern peoples and their descendants were legally white in general, but there were a lot of discussions in the early 20th century about labeling them as Asian, and thus ineligible for citizenship.^[74] Some Syrians, Afghans and Arabs have occasionally been denied naturalization due to not being white.^[75]Armenians, were classified by the courts as white with help from the testimony of anthropologist Franz Boas.^[47] ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States )

 

Then there has been an issue of whether or not Jews are white. They took on more of a white role in society in the mid 1900s from what I have read, but they have also been pointed out be an African American activist as not quite because they are in some ways still a minority and with anti-seminitism around, can become singled out if something big happens.

 

White takes on a more cultural aspect when you consider that some who are of an olive ethnic group don't always feel white even though they are legally white. Occasionally they have even been singled out because of there ethnicity. (Example that might be familiar to more people: predominantly white society discriminated against white (Middle Eastern) people compared to white (not Middle Eastern) during 9/11.) There are also cultural differences in values, habits, social events, etc. that differ (along with some foods, music, etc.).

 

Religion has shaped people's role in society more than just those and the anthropologist testimonies supporting Armenians and whoever else being white. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/04/24/are-the-tsarnaevs-white.html In "Are the Tsarnaevs White?" by Peter Beinart, he points out that there was confusion and difficulty accepting that these two guys were white because they were Muslim. He sites a couple of the court cases where religion was used to determine race or at least whiteness.

 

Since America’s founding, being white has meant, both culturally and legally, being “one of us.”

 

 

Edited October 10, 2013 by Light and Truth

[Anastasia13]

Regarding the Mexican case, I've heard that it was influenced by some trade contract the US had with Mexico. I've also heard that they are white but had the political power to get minority rights because of the large number of politically active people. I've also met a Mexican American who looks relatively Caucasian, whose birth certificate says white (or possibly Caucasian but I think that was less likely-never say a birth certificate though myself), and who is ok with being listed as such. There are Mexicans with more Native (Meso?) American and ones with more European (mostly Spanish), and possibly some other addmixtures. From what I have seen Mexico is a multi-racial country, though I've never been there.

[Aloysius]

it is not at all true that the difference between black and white people is as far as the difference between German Shepherds and French Poodles... I wonder who has been peddling that nonsense to you?  It's quite simply not true.

 

here's a good explanation of the nature of sickle cell, that geographic heritage doesn't prove some fundamental genetic divide between "blacks" and "whites", not at all. 

http://www.understandingrace.org/humvar/sickle_01.html

 

anyway, I just found the website that has that explanation, and it also has a great deal of good information on this subject... here's a good presentation about the way genetic variation doesn't actually follow the standard "race" lines http://www.understandingrace.org/humvar/race_humvar.html

 

 

[picchick]

If you are white, then it might mean you are actually part of a ream of general purpose copier paper.