Jaime Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Nov 13 2005, 01:09 PM']That describes both aspects of it pretty well, I think. Marriage does have for it's author God. So does everything else good. The state, in not going against what the Church says, upholds this. The issue is when the state goes against the Church (and worse, Natural Law). [right][snapback]787245[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No that is not what Pope Leo is saying. He is saying that civil authorities not only do not have the right to define marriage but are working against the Church when they do. Please Q read the documents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 I did...I can't do any more than that. Even so, is there nothing about marriage in the Natural Law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 (edited) [quote name='qfnol31' date='Nov 13 2005, 01:19 PM']I did...I can't do any more than that. Even so, is there nothing about marriage in the Natural Law? [right][snapback]787251[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I've said this before Q. Dogma supercedes natural law. Define the levels of law. Put them in order of importance and you will answer your own question immediately. Edited November 13, 2005 by jaime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 (edited) hot stuff, that's a non-answer... I think that's a misunderstanding of Natural Law and Divine Law/Dogma. Divine Law gives a supernatural end to the morality of Natural Law. It gives reason for virtue while Natural Law is the moral foundation. Edited November 13, 2005 by qfnol31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 From the Summa I-II:91:5 [quote] The natural law directs man by way of certain general precepts, common both to the perfect and the imperfect. Wherefore, it is one and the same for all. But the divine law directs man also in certain particular matters, to which the perfect and imperfect do not stand in the same relation. Hence the necessity for the divine law to be twofold, is already explained.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 (edited) Hence, virtuous vs. moral. There isn't an idea of them cancelling each other out but working together. Edit x2: Also, in marriage there are certain things (four to be exact) that are general precepts: 1) Exclusivity 2) Heterosexuality 3) Permanence 4) Procreative The Church doesn't have to give these because they should be known to all men, because they are from Natural Law...This is the part that government is allowed to legislate, not because it gives the definitions, but because it takes it from the Natural Law. Edited November 13, 2005 by qfnol31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 [quote name='qfnol31' date='Nov 13 2005, 01:39 PM']Hence, virtuous vs. moral. There isn't an idea of them cancelling each other out but working together. [right][snapback]787263[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Q I can't explain it any clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Did you see my edit? I'm still hoping you'll address whether or not marriage falls under Natural Law at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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