Socrates Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 [quote name='dspen2005' date='Oct 23 2005, 11:05 AM']the attraction is neutral, in either case... the question of morality is in the state of acting these out... [right][snapback]768114[/snapback][/right] [/quote] The attraction (in both cases) cannot be considred "neutral" but must be considered intrinsically disordered. "Neutral" impies there is nothing wrong with this type of attraction. Acting on an intrinsically disordered passion is always sinful. (The attraction itself is not a sin, but is an inclination towards something sinful and should never be acted on.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Cam42' date='Oct 23 2005, 05:44 PM']Why the laughing.....? I find that to be very inconsiderate. [right][snapback]768442[/snapback][/right] [/quote]I find your need to state you taking offense as you taking yourself a little too seriously. neway... I kinda like Dr. Phil, but I have a big problem with his statement: [quote]"[b]Dr. Phil:[/b] Homosexuality is not a learned behavior. A sexual orientation is inherited; you are wired that way." [/quote] Edited October 24, 2005 by jasJis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dspen2005 Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Oct 23 2005, 10:37 PM']The attraction (in both cases) cannot be considred "neutral" but must be considered intrinsically disordered. "Neutral" impies there is nothing wrong with this type of attraction. Acting on an intrinsically disordered passion is always sinful. (The attraction itself is not a sin, but is an inclination towards something sinful and should never be acted on.) [right][snapback]768651[/snapback][/right] [/quote] read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 2357. The homosexual act is "intrinsically disordered". When I stated that the attraction was neutral, I believe that I qualified it by saying, "morally" neutral -- in that there is nothing morally wrong with the attraction -- in the strict sense. The catechism does say that the inclination is "objectively disordered" -- which is different from your statement above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 [quote name='jasJis' date='Oct 23 2005, 10:49 PM']I find your need to state you taking offense as you taking yourself a little too seriously. [right][snapback]768660[/snapback][/right] [/quote] ORRRRRRRRRRRRRR.....it could be that I don't like being called a toady, and having people laugh about it. I can and do take a joke as well as anyone. However, his statement was not a joke....and I don't appreciate you laughing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 Why does everything have to be one or the other. I believe there could inhereted tendancies that predispose one to it and then enviromental factors contribute to it. Even if it is inhereted that says nothing of the morality of it, though it may diminist culpability in some circumstances. That is left for God to decide. If someone has a gene that predisposes them to alcoholism does that make binge drinking okay? No. Should we not cure the cancer victim who has a genetic form of cancer? No. The grace of God can overcome even genetic homosexuality if there is such a thing I believe. Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BCatholic139 Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 For me, I heard it does run in the family... But that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onathing1 Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 This topic has been studied by many scientists and the conclusion that they came to is that homosexuality is NOT inherited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitelord1 Posted October 24, 2005 Author Share Posted October 24, 2005 I think that there is a reason behind every issue of morality. God doesnt just choose what is good and bad. Good is good for a reason. Bad is bad for a reason. I think 99% of you have no idea how hard it is to have SSA. Frankly, I dont see how homosexuality can be a predisposition in a world of free-will. Dont you think that it would contradict free-will? I really hope you are not thinking...."those who experience SSA attraction have the free-will choice to act or not to act on it". Let me ask you another question.........say someone comes to you and they seem to be down and out about something........they then tell you that they are struggling with SSA. What are you going to say to them to comfort them? would it be homosexuality is wrong and you should abstain? Do you think advice like this would really comfort someone? I assure you that it certainly doesnt solve their SSA. I imagine it must be pretty hard for men who are feminine.........im sure people constantly tell them they are gay whether it is in a compassionate manner or a bashing manner. Imagine how hard it is for that person to define themselves. You cant........most of you have no idea. Imagine struggling with your belief in god because of this issue and listening to other people try to say that it is some predisposition. So i would like to know how this predisposition corrolates with freewill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 [quote name='infinitelord1' date='Oct 24 2005, 03:46 PM']I think that there is a reason behind every issue of morality. God doesnt just choose what is good and bad. Good is good for a reason. Bad is bad for a reason. I think 99% of you have no idea how hard it is to have SSA. Frankly, I dont see how homosexuality can be a predisposition in a world of free-will. Dont you think that it would contradict free-will? I really hope you are not thinking...."those who experience SSA attraction have the free-will choice to act or not to act on it". Let me ask you another question.........say someone comes to you and they seem to be down and out about something........they then tell you that they are struggling with SSA. What are you going to say to them to comfort them? would it be homosexuality is wrong and you should abstain? Do you think advice like this would really comfort someone? I assure you that it certainly doesnt solve their SSA. I imagine it must be pretty hard for men who are feminine.........im sure people constantly tell them they are gay whether it is in a compassionate manner or a bashing manner. Imagine how hard it is for that person to define themselves. You cant........most of you have no idea. Imagine struggling with your belief in god because of this issue and listening to other people try to say that it is some predisposition. So i would like to know how this predisposition corrolates with freewill. [right][snapback]769347[/snapback][/right] [/quote]It works in quite well with free will, because we trust in God, who is Perfect Mercy [b]and[/b] Perfect Justice. Free will is the idea that we chose Good or Bad and we recieve the relative Consequences of our actions. Superficially, a guy with SSA seems the odds are stacked against them, they struggle mightily to not flirt with the good looking guy waiter, while someone without SSA doesn't even get the faintest temptation. BUT... God knows who He graced with what. The act of the person with SSA not flirting, averting his eyes and thinking of other things would be incredibly valued by God and Judged by Him as being of Great Worth to Him. It is an act of will. Relatively, it may be equivalent to the married guy not flirting with his secretary when he and his wife have been having a rough few months during her pregnancy. God knows the level of temptation and rates our reaction accordingly. If the person w/SSA does flirt a bit and maybe has sex, do you think God would consider that as big as a betrayal as a man repeatedly cheating on his wife because he's the boss and can use his influence to bed his office help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofpheritup Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 [quote name='dspen2005' date='Oct 23 2005, 11:05 AM']the attraction is neutral, in either case... the question of morality is in the state of acting these out... [right][snapback]768114[/snapback][/right] [/quote] BINGO.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dspen2005 Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 $$$$ cha-ching $$$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cow of Shame Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 I believe that for some homosexuals, there is a genetic component to their attractoin. However, we are more than our biological bits!! (You might have the urge to mate with anything on two legs, but you certainly shouldn't act upon it.) Having a 'broken' gene for your ability to regulate how much alcohol is appropriate to drink, or who you should take to bed DOES NOT automaticaly condemn someone to being an alcoholic or homosexual. -- Your environment influences your actions, but does not set them in stone. I've known people who were raised in wonderful, loving families & have nothing but hate & spite in their hearts. I've known people who were raised in mockery, families devoid of love & compassion, yet are very loving, giving & charitable individuals. To say that all homosexuals have 'chosen' to be attracted to the same sex oversimplifies the problem. We are complex creatures, influenced by both our genetics & our environment...yet amazingly built so that our [b]actions might be greater than either of these[/b]. Our abilities to do so do not preclude the facts that we are built from our DNA, and that DNA can be just as faulted as the rest of the fall of man that you see around you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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