photosynthesis Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 [quote name='dspen2005' date='Oct 22 2005, 04:42 PM']homosexuality is a life-style and so it is a choice; attraction to individuals of the same sex, like any attraction, is morally neutral.... [right][snapback]767382[/snapback][/right] [/quote] what if it's a middle aged man who's attracted to 8-year old girls, or vice versa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cow of Shame Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 We've been 'round & 'round & ...[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=40026&st=120"][u]HERE YA GO[/u][/url] I've written lengthy responses on this issue...why start a new thread on this thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ofpheritup Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 (edited) [quote name='hot stuff' date='Oct 22 2005, 03:35 PM']Ok except that Alcoholism is hereditary. You can be genetically predispositioned to addiction. It is not just simply environment. [right][snapback]767375[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I am still not sure how I feel about this one. Going back to the "gay lifestyle." I don't have a lot of patience discussing it. If they want to discuss it I ask, "Can you read? Do you own a Bible? Have you read Romans 26-32?" I either get a yes or no. For all of the "arguments or discussions" whatever you want to call it. The bottom line is GOD SAID DON'T DO IT. So past that point they choose what they want to do. And I simply state the fact, which is God said don't, He isn't interested in having a conversation about the whys and the wherefore's. But then again that holds true of any sin. They can jump, holler, justify, point fingers, blame mommy or daddy or the doctor but they still choose to act on it. My conversation lasts long enough to steer them toward the Bible. Past that it isn't me they have to explain themselves to. Edited October 23, 2005 by ofpheritup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Oct 22 2005, 03:35 PM']Ok except that Alcoholism is hereditary. You can be genetically predispositioned to addiction. It is not just simply environment. [right][snapback]767375[/snapback][/right] [/quote]With this 'except' statement you are making the statement Homosexuality is not hereditary and you cant be predispositioned to additiction and it IS simply environment? You missed the point of Era's post (which I agree with wholeheartedly). I believe that homosexuality MAY have a hereditary PREDISPOSITION, like Alcoholism. Environment also plays a major role, but hereditary predisposition and environmental factors don't make Homosexuality okay, just as it doesn't make Alcoholism okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 [quote name='jasJis' date='Oct 23 2005, 08:57 AM']With this 'except' statement you are making the statement Homosexuality is not hereditary and you cant be predispositioned to additiction and it IS simply environment? You missed the point of Era's post (which I agree with wholeheartedly). I believe that homosexuality MAY have a hereditary PREDISPOSITION, like Alcoholism. Environment also plays a major role, but hereditary predisposition and environmental factors don't make Homosexuality okay, just as it doesn't make Alcoholism okay. [right][snapback]768054[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No. I'm correcting the statement that alcoholism is purely environmental. That statement was wrong. The jury is still out whether or not there are genetic factors in homosexuality. Studies on the size differential of the hypothalamus within homosexuals will be debated by people smarter than me. But I think its telling that there are twin studies where one twin is straight and the other is homosexual. There is a mirroring factor within twins. There are many cases where one twin is right handed and one is left handed. The argument is that homosexual tendencies could be a part of that "mirroring" of fraternal twins. And in any case, it does not change what the Church teaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Oct 23 2005, 09:23 AM'][snip]. And in any case, it does not change what the Church teaches. [right][snapback]768057[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I fully agree with that last statement. It makes all this 'debarting' a little pointless, wouldn't you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 [quote name='Didacus' date='Oct 23 2005, 10:09 AM']I fully agree with that last statement. It makes all this 'debarting' a little pointless, wouldn't you say? [right][snapback]768081[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well since the topic isn't Church related, I don't think its that pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Oct 23 2005, 10:23 AM']No. I'm correcting the statement that alcoholism is purely environmental. That statement was wrong. The jury is still out whether or not there are genetic factors in homosexuality. Studies on the size differential of the hypothalamus within homosexuals will be debated by people smarter than me. But I think its telling that there are twin studies where one twin is straight and the other is homosexual. There is a mirroring factor within twins. There are many cases where one twin is right handed and one is left handed. The argument is that homosexual tendencies could be a part of that "mirroring" of fraternal twins. And in any case, it does not change what the Church teaches. [right][snapback]768057[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Couldn't agree more.....and here is what the Church teaches: [quote name='CCC #2357']Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.[/quote] [quote name='CCC #2358']The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.[/quote] [quote name='CCC #2359']Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.[/quote] Notice that the Church doesn't teach on the physiological, simply the psychological and physical action. However, the impotice is that since the action cannot be approved, it is something that is controllable. With that being said, it would also follow that even though we don't know the inclination or the psychological genesis, we can make enough of a moral judgment to be able to hate the sin. With all that being said, we must remember that science is not the end, only the means. Science is a way to understand the Creation of the World and the way it works. It should be complimentary, not exclusive of the understanding of God. Even that being said, allows us to be able to find ways to help. We can, help them overcome their affliction. Since the Church deems it to be an affliction, the Church is saying that regardless of the psychological genesis or the inclination, right reason can overcome. Humans, being rational creatures can choose right from wrong. Humans can choose, regardless of the environment, not to take that drink or not to engage in a sexual situation that is contrary to the complimentary nature of the person. Is homosexuality inherited? I cannot say. I follow the lead of the Church. She says homosexual persons, like all others, are called to chastity. Regardless of the psychological or physiological reasons, we can choose, either to be or not to be chaste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StatingTheObvious Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 (edited) [quote name='jasJis' date='Oct 23 2005, 09:57 AM']With this 'except' statement you are making the statement Homosexuality is not hereditary and you cant be predispositioned to additiction and it IS simply environment? You missed the point of Era's post (which I agree with wholeheartedly). I believe that homosexuality MAY have a hereditary PREDISPOSITION, like Alcoholism. Environment also plays a major role, but hereditary predisposition and environmental factors don't make Homosexuality okay, just as it doesn't make Alcoholism okay. [right][snapback]768054[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Little hint... Read the post before you agree or harp. I read your post, and agree, but it's obvious that Era was saying something different. [color=red]rude comment [/color]. Edited October 23, 2005 by cmotherofpirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dspen2005 Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 [quote name='photosynthesis' date='Oct 22 2005, 10:56 PM']what if it's a middle aged man who's attracted to 8-year old girls, or vice versa? [right][snapback]767624[/snapback][/right] [/quote] the attraction is neutral, in either case... the question of morality is in the state of acting these out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 [quote name='StatingTheObvious' date='Oct 23 2005, 12:04 PM']Little hint... Read the post before you agree or harp. I read your post, and agree, but it's obvious that Era was saying something different. You just fed the phatmass toady 'tag-team'. [right][snapback]768113[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well, that ad hominem was very mature of you. Especially, since I gave solid Catholic teaching..... Wanna make something of me, good luck.....and have at it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 Any biological cause of homosexuality would have to be a genetic or some other physiological abnormality. IOW, it would not be a natural occurence, but a corruption. And no, I do not think such is the case. I believe homosexuality is a psychological abnormality, as are other sexual disorders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasJis Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 [quote name='StatingTheObvious' date='Oct 23 2005, 11:04 AM']Little hint... Read the post before you agree or harp. I read your post, and agree, but it's obvious that Era was saying something different. You just fed the phatmass toady 'tag-team'. [right][snapback]768113[/snapback][/right] [/quote]Couldn't you have just said you agree with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted October 23, 2005 Share Posted October 23, 2005 [quote name='jasJis' date='Oct 23 2005, 02:33 PM']Couldn't you have just said you agree with me? [right][snapback]768203[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Why the laughing.....? I find that to be very inconsiderate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morostheos Posted October 24, 2005 Share Posted October 24, 2005 [quote name='ofpheritup' date='Oct 22 2005, 10:05 AM']I think I may get "blasted" behind this one. But I am going to try any way. Sin is sin, when we are tempted we react or we don't. We choose to listen to Satan over God or we don't. Homosexuality is a sin. I got that part. What I am saying is that. If that sin can supposedly be inherited and that is the excuse some people will use then what is to stop us from using that for every sin? The great lie is "I couldn't help myself" (inherited). So liars, thieves, adulterers all have an built in excuse. What I am thinking is just because a man is attracted to a man doesn't mean he has to act on what he is feeling. We are not animals. We have intellect, reasoning, self awareness and God will hold us responsible. The only thing that Dr. Phil has said that I agree with is "You teach people how to treat you." Other than that Doc ain't got a clue. [right][snapback]767204[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well, if you think about, ALL sin is inherited, as we inherited original sin from Adam and Eve. That doesn't justify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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