Funerals

[M.SIGGA]

Why at funeral masses is there an overall assumption that the person who has passed a way is in heaven? I went to a funeral this morning, and the rosary was offered before the mass ending with a prayer for the faithfully departed, but all other aspects of the mass, like the readings and the priests short homily, all talked about blessed assurance; in fact the hymn "Blessed Assurance" was the entrance hymn. It's a beautiful inspirational song, but one of the verses talks about "visions of rapture" - not really appropriate in a Catholic Church.

I did a little research before making this post and one website said the priests of pre-Vatican II Rite of Christian burial used to wear black robes and didn't make assumptions about the person being in Paradise unless it was a mass of cannonization or beatification.

Shouldn't the funeral mass be filled with prayers for the faithfully departed instead of readings and hymns that are therapy for friends and family?

[PedroX]

m.sigga,

You are completely correct. It is a problem in modern Christianity (not just Catholics) to have an over abundance of compassion (as distinct from charity) and therefore "assume the best". The correct stance is not to assume the worst, but rather to pray earnestly and hopefully for the "dearly departed". Priests did inDouche wear black vestments, but that is now optional and in some diocese discouraged. If I am ever ordained, I will definitely wear black at the funeral (they are really cool looking vestments!).

peace...

[Lil Red]

I would hope that at my funeral, people would be saying prayers for me in purgatory.

[willguy]

I think it's like PedroX said. Especially at a funeral, it is comforting to think that our loved ones are in heaven. It gives closure. It seems a bit rude to our modern mentalities to say at a funeral that the deceased are in purgatory. I think a lot of Catholics also have lost touch with the reality of purgatory, adopting a Protestant viewpoint. It's sad really.

[God Conquers]

We have to pray earnestly that the person is in heaven but we can HOPE can't we? I would think that celebrating the life of someone is important and putting faith in the mercy of the Lord is why the readings are ususally so hopeful. Would YOU want damning readings and people crying at your funeral? Heck no! I want people to be happy at my funeral. I'll hire a couple keeners so everyone else doesn't have to cry and can have a blast at my funeral party! I would want people to know that I did my best during my lifetime to do the will of God and that he will reward His efforts in my life. I think that's what funerals are.... cautious, but hopeful of God's mercy.

p.s. The Mass is the most powerful form of prayer, and we focus on the eucharist, not the readings, so that's the most important aspect.

[Ash Wednesday]

Interesting topic. Heh, I can certainly relate to what God Conquers is saying because I went through all this last month. I think in our culture, unfortunately, people don't really address death, and a lot of people are scared to death.... of death! We aren't as used to it as we were in ages past. I think that's why people gloss over any "somber" things -- like calling funeral homes "tribute centers" now.

Last month was my mother's funeral and it was the very first time I was ever directly involved with planning the funeral mass. Of course Mom's death wasn't expected and we had to plan this quickly so my head felt like it was only half there...

In our case, we were given a funeral mass book to select certain pre-selected readings from. Some were more somber and of the "last things, judgment, be on guard" nature, and others had a greater emphasis on "hope in those who believe." (note I said "in those who believe")

Ultimately though, it was up to the priest to decide what readings would be read. Our priest wore white, but I guess I didn't view that as being too joyful -- just "holy" I guess. The casket was draped in white to represent the deceased's baptism and had a crucifix on top. I've heard that priests also traditionally wear purple at funerals too. (perhaps this is nice when people wonder if white seems too joyful and black seems too bleak -- grey just wouldn't cut it!) If my relatives have any brains, my mother's sudden death should be a stark reminder of their own mortality and what happens after death and make them question if they're prepared for it. A lot of people at that funeral I suspect thought, "gee, there's a whole lotta religion in this ceremony!"

I don't think the priest wearing white necessarily makes the funeral a canonization, as much as it is what the priest is saying -- like, I've heard of priests including the deceased name in the group of saints named off on the Eucharistic prayer, (i.e. "Anastasia, Cecilia, *Ralph*, and all your saints") now that is plain wrong. That or saying "well we can be SURE they're in heaven!" -- our priest didn't say anything of the sort -- he did remark about the fact that we can celebrate the beautiful life that she lived -- she was a very faithful soul, involved in Church and did a lot of charity with community, etc. But in the Eucharistic prayers they ask pardon for the deceased's sins, they pray for God's mercy. (Remember, in the Eucharistic prayer the priest says something about asking God to not grant us what we truly deserve, but to count us among the saints at our death) It should be not about assuming anything, but placing TRUST in the Lord and his perfect and just judgment.

I guess my experience with my mother's funeral was that it was sacred, trusting and hopeful, but did not assume anything, but it was peaceful and beautiful. The mass and vigil were filled with prayers for her and all the departed. That's what they should be there for. It was, above all, a service that witnessed on behalf of Christ's redeeming power to those who believe, and the Catholic faith, and I'm glad it wasn't such a somber thing. I thought that was beautiful. But then again I was probably a little sensitive about things like that, and probably still am.

The night before the priest did talk about purgatory at the vigil to the congregation. I don't remember what was said at the actual funeral because my head wasn't entirely there at times, it all felt like a foggy dream. But he did everything in good balance and very tastefully. I think priests avoid talking about purgatory because they are afraid of confusing non-catholics attending. But they most certainly should urge survivors to pray for our loved ones. I do trust that my mother is in heaven, but that shouldn't stop me from praying for her soul, and it doesn't.

I view our prayers, whether they are in heaven or purgatory, as being beautiful gifts for them. At the very least if they are already in heaven, they'll know that you're thinking of them and sending them your love.

Well I'm rambling now! *sigh*

Edited December 5, 2003 by Ash Wednesday

[Ash Wednesday]

P.S. some of my relatives had a cow when the priest very gently and respectfully instructed that only Catholics were permitted to receive communion -- trying to explain this later to irritated relatives at the post-funeral house gathering was so awkward and was a really aggrivating moment. Emotions being high enough among everyone grieving, not to mention people throwing alcohol into the mix makes for a really ugly situation. :ph34r:

[JuCa]

This past week my grandfather almost died and we were making funeral arrangments and all. For some reason my uncle kept coming to me asking questions about what we should have and stuff. i was like I don't know!??

My grandpa does not want a wake when he dies. Someone told us that you have to have the Rite of Christian Burial or something like that. Is this true? If we were to have a wake couldn't we just pray a Rosary or do you have to go through that whole prayer service?

I would want to do what's REALLY Catholic. I think a Rosary would be great though. There is a lady in our church that does the whole setting up process for the wake/prayer thing. She is a bit...well, looney and has a want to be in charge attitude...that is why i am wondering what a REAL CATHOLIC wake and funeral would consist of

[Ash Wednesday]

Usually, at least from my experience, the night before the funeral they have either a Prayer Vigil, or a Rosary. Our family had a Prayer Vigil for my mother. I think they did the same for my grandmother. The rosary is where, obviously, they lead you through the rosary. You can't get any more Catholic than that. I think in our case the priest did not have to be present at the rosary, but he was present at the prayer vigil. The prayer vigil is also a series of prayers said for the dead, and is led by a priest. Of course I see no reason why the priest can't be present at the rosary.

I believe Rite of Christian Burial, I've also heard it as Mass of Christian Burial. That is the actual funeral. That's MY understanding, anyway!

[cmotherofpirl]

Priests wear white at all CAtholic funerals, it represents hope for eternal life.

The rite of Christian Burial is the Funeral Mass.

Usually a group from the Church comes and says the Rosary at the funeral home, the night before the mass. The priest may or may not attend.

The Church gives you a set list of readings and songs to choose from.

I have been to many funerals were the deceased has been known to be in a state of grace when they died: having just had last rites. What is wrong with hoping they had gone to heaven, and praying for them in case it was purgatory?

[M.SIGGA]

Priests wear white at all CAtholic funerals, it represents hope for eternal life.

The rite of Christian Burial is the Funeral Mass.

Usually a group from the Church comes and says the Rosary at the funeral home, the night before the mass. The priest may or may not attend.

The Church gives you a  set  list of readings and songs to choose from.

I have been to many funerals were the deceased has been known to be in a state of grace when they died: having just had last rites.  What is wrong with hoping they had gone to heaven, and praying for them in case it was purgatory?

At Bl. Mother Teresa's funeral there were a handful of bishops who wore the traditional black robes and black miter.

Before V II, if a person was lapsed or was publicly known to be living in sin that person's body could not be passed through the church - now this rule seems to only be for politicians and celebrities and public officials in extreme cases who lived in mortal sin.

All I was saying is that the greatest emphasis of the funeral mass should be prayers for the soul in purgatory.

Edited December 7, 2003 by M.SIGGA

[cmotherofpirl]

Those bishops were probably eastern catholic bishops.

The Church prays for the departed making no asssumptions, but with hope in their eternal salvation.

[Ash Wednesday]

Here here, CMom!!!

M.Sigga, I do understand your concerns -- I went to a funeral once and the priest did just what many are bothered by: joked that John Doe didn't exactly come to church and break down the church doors (he was long lapsed), but the priest looked forward to seeing him in heaven anyway, because he was a nice man and very popular in the community (we can certainly hope that he is there of course, but any sensible person would pray for this man, especially having been away from the sacraments, but also having died driving drunk) -- in some masses there are certain things done and said that are inappropriate -- if any priests are just assuming (rather than hoping) in the soul's salvation in their homily, then essentially they're saying the deceased in question doesn't need our prayers. This would be doing them a great disservice.

As only God can know the state of one's soul, they will have a mass for someone that in earlier times would not have gotten a funeral mass, like a suicide. We can still hope for a soul, rightfully so -- the Church does not proclaim specific souls to be in hell the same way they take assurance of specific saints in heaven. (Of course in the cases that you mentioned, I'm guessing that these are souls that are excommunicated from the Church -- and in that case, inDouche they probably wouldn't have a Catholic funeral.)

The problem comes when they abuse the liturgy and make it seem like a canonization -- this is presumption of God's mercy. On the flip side, we cannot despair of God's mercy, either. I don't see how saying a mass for someone means it's a voice of approval for what they've done wrong, or overlooking their sins. Quite the contrary, the mass is the greatest thing that can be done for a soul.

At the funeral mass for Andy Warhol, one very confused Catholic, the priest very correctly said in his homily, "we can trust that our God is merciful -- however we cannot afford take his mercy for granted, either."

Edited December 7, 2003 by Ash Wednesday

[littleflower+JMJ]

the funeral mass is one full of hope and healing. its incredible.

one of the saddest funerals i went to was not only cuz we had lost such a great friend but that he wasn't catholic and did not have a mass for a funeral. nor the novena that we always pray for the next 9 days after the funeral

that was the first non-catholic funeral i went to.

i felt so sad and realized that day how wonderful and powerful the sacrament of the funeral mass was and the beauty of it all and big of a role it played.

the prayer, the holy eucharist, the intercession, the graces and all our petitions all being lifted up to the heavens.

it truly is beautiful. and comforting.

our God is truly one amesome God.

+JMJ

[Azriel]

The last funeral Mass I attended was for Tristan-man. The night before we had a rosary, and his mother talked, and I talked, and everyone was invited to say something about our little guy.

Fr. Paul wore white vestments, but, they were made by the children of the school, and had brightly colored handprints all over them.

I think in this instance, because Tristan was not only just a child of 6 1/2, but because he'd suffered so much, it was quite appropriate for the Priest to speak as if our lil one was in Heaven.

Which I fully believe.