Socrates Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 [quote name='MichaelFilo' date='Nov 12 2005, 01:35 AM']While Cmom's defenitions of the words certainly leave no question as to what you are, some of us prefer more suitable defenitions of those terms if there really a point in asking the opinion of others about yourself. A Traditionalist, at least in your case, would be someone who holds onto not only orthodox teachings, but traditional practices. (Don John is an excellent example, I think, of a super Traditionalist; although, I'm not aquinted with his practices so much). Orthodox would simple mean, "correct belief" in which case this applies to you and would simply better be assumed. Modernist would be more of a statement about your preference for the new church, a more Vatican II type of guy. You know, Extraordinary ministers, horrid insturments during Mass, a person who loves the Novus Ordo and possibly wants to see the tabernacle not behind the altar (Note, all these are not directly because of VII, but have come in it's era). In as much as those defenitions are used, I would say that you lean on traditionalism more than modernism. I still voted the latter. Why? I can't say, not because it's some secret, I just felt it to be more correct. Not to say that I think badly of you, it's just what felt more correct, based on no real logic. God bless, Cam Jr. [right][snapback]786264[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Modernism is a heresy condemned by the Church which refers to specific things. (See the proscribed propositions quoted by Popestpiusx earlier in this thread). I must say, I have never seen Cam42 promote or defend any of these heretical ideas anywhere on these boards. As Catholics, we must go with the Church's definitions of Modernism, and not just throw around this word to mean "someone who doesn't agree with my extreme trad ideas" or "someone who accepts Vatican II as a valid council." Calling someone a "modernist" (or other type of heretic) is a serious charge and should not be thrown around without basis just based vaguely on "what feels to be correct" and "based on no real logic." That is pure nonsense. Mikey, you need to start using some real logic in your theological posts, or you shouldn't post at all! Once we start basing our theological ideas illogically on our own personal feelings, rather than on the teaching of the Church, we become no better than the modernists themselves. I've had my disagreements with Cam, but I must say whoever calls him a modernist is high on crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Nov 12 2005, 10:31 PM'][url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01394a.htm"]Ambrosian Rite[/url] [right][snapback]786774[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Thank you What is your favorite part of this Mass? Has it been altered since Vatican II in any way? Is there a tape of an Ambosian rite Mass available [since I will prob not get to Milan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted November 13, 2005 Author Share Posted November 13, 2005 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Nov 12 2005, 09:48 PM']Thank you What is your favorite part of this Mass? Has it been altered since Vatican II in any way? Is there a tape of an Ambosian rite Mass available [since I will prob not get to Milan? [right][snapback]786788[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No, it hasn't been altered, at least the Masses that I have been to. I don't think that it has been at all. A couple of changes that I do like: Advent is two weeks longer. Lent starts on a Sunday, not Wednesday. But my favorite part: After the Consecration, during the "Unde et memores", the Celebrant opens his arms forming a cross signifying that the Holy Sacrifice has been accomplished by the priest "in persona Christi", while the Choir sings the "Benedictus." [url="http://www.unavoce.org/ambrosian_rite_milan.htm"]Here[/url] is a link with pics and explaination of parts of the Mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Paul VI was from the Archdiocese of Milan, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted November 13, 2005 Author Share Posted November 13, 2005 [quote name='Aloysius' date='Nov 12 2005, 11:08 PM']Paul VI was from the Archdiocese of Milan, correct? [right][snapback]786847[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yep, he was the Archbishop of Milan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 [quote name='Aloysius' date='Nov 12 2005, 11:08 PM']Paul VI was from the Archdiocese of Milan, correct? [right][snapback]786847[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I think there's very little coincidence between that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pio Nono Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 JMJ 11/13 - Thirty-third Sunday Actually, all the Western Liturgies (Ambrosian, Mozarabic and Latin) were revised after Vatican II. The Ambrosians and Mozarabs finished their revisions in the mid-to-late 80s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qfnol31 Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Now that would explain a lot...what all was revised in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted November 13, 2005 Author Share Posted November 13, 2005 [quote name='Pio Nono' date='Nov 13 2005, 10:12 AM']JMJ 11/13 - Thirty-third Sunday Actually, all the Western Liturgies (Ambrosian, Mozarabic and Latin) were revised after Vatican II. The Ambrosians and Mozarabs finished their revisions in the mid-to-late 80s. [right][snapback]787142[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That is interesting, however, I have not seen a revised Ambrosian Liturgy. Not that there wouldn't be as much beauty, richness, or validity, although I have only seen the traditional form of the Liturgy used. I don't know of any priests who celebrate the revised Ambrosian Liturgy. Can you point to a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pio Nono Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 JMJ 11/14 - Thirty-third Monday I'm still looking for a source, but since I'm technically on silent retreat ( ) I don't have a lot of time to search. However, the Ambrosian and Mozarabic Rites are almost indiscernable from the Roman Rite anymore. I was told that the only differing things between the Ambrosian and Roman Rites are the Prefaces, the Sanctoral and the location of the sign of peace. I was never able to make it up to Milan to check it out, though - besides, Milan is like a big Starbucks. Go to Napoli. I'm still looking. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 this thread is silly. If Cam is a Modernist, we're all doomed That's all I have to say : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 not all of us...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 13 2006, 10:57 AM']not all of us...... [right][snapback]854947[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Are you saying I am an adherernt to the Modernist heresy, Sam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 depends Cam. I don't really know what you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Jan 13 2006, 11:43 AM']depends Cam. I don't really know what you believe. [right][snapback]855004[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Have you ever read anything I have posted? My views are in complete conformity with the Catholic Church on matters of faith and morals. You had better be able to back up your statement. Or apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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