Evidence Against Mormons' Historical Account

[cmotherofpirl]

New Film Reveals Evidence Against Mormons' Historical Account

By Jenni Parker and Chad Groening

December 3, 2003

(AgapePress) - A Utah-based Christian ministry is trying to make the public aware of new DNA research that could spell disaster for the Mormon Church.

Since its founding in the 1820s by Joseph Smith, the Mormon Church, now known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS), has claimed that its primary sacred text, the Book of Mormon, is a historical account of a group of Israelites who emigrated to the New World in about 600 B.C.

The church claims that modern American Indians are descended from some of these ancient Israelite progenitors (Laman and Lemuel). LDS members claim that the prophet Mormon, who they believe originally compiled the history that became the Book of Mormon, also had Hebrew roots, supposedly being descended from an ancient Israelite named Nephi.

According to LDS lore, Mormon's son Moroni hid metal plates engraved with his father's record of the "Nephites" and the "Lamanites" in the side of a hill, where Joseph Smith found them with the divine assistance of the angel Moroni and translated them into English.

But now, a new video has documented several DNA studies refuting the purported Hebrew origins of the early inhabitants of the American continent. The video was produced by Living Hope Ministries, the media production arm of Living Hope Christian Fellowship, a small, evangelical non-denominational congregation located in Brigham City, a predominantly LDS community in northern Utah.

Living Hope's pastor, Joel Kramer, produced the film titled DNA vs. the Book of Mormon, which reveals among other evidence, the testimony of molecular anthropologists and other scientific experts asserting that DNA conclusively proves American Indians are not of Israelite ancestry.

The Mormon Foundation Crumbles

The Book of Mormon has been held up by the LDS as an accurate early history of the Native Americans and of their faith, despite the fact that no artifacts, remnants of cities, linguistic clues, or other scientific proofs have been found to support these propositions. The greater scientific community concurs that American Indians are of Siberian, not Semitic descent, but most LDS members still believe in the historicity of their sacred text, and the church's own Brigham Young University continues to do archeological research in this area.

Kramer hopes to bring the truth to the fore. "What we're trying to communicate with the people here in Utah and elsewhere is to give them an understanding that really, all the anthropologists and archaeologists -- they are all in agreement, outside of Mormonism, outside of BYU -- that the principle ancestors of Native Americans are Asian, and not Hebrew," he says.

The film also reveals that there is no archeological evidence of the existence of the people described in the Book of Mormon, or any trace of the Hebrew language among modern Indians. Kramer feels that the most fundamental tenets of Mormonism crumble in light of the evidence.

According to the pastor-producer, the history laid out in the Book of Mormon and "this understanding that Hebrews are the ones who populated the Americas -- that's something that they're taught in their Sunday Schools ... something that they're all aware of and have come to believe." But DNA vs. the Book of Mormon sheds light on the lack of foundation for Mormon beliefs, and rebuts the LDS claim that the Book of Mormon is a historical document.

Kramer feels the film's revelations have tremendous potential for impact because "this DNA evidence shows that something they've been taught all their lives, from generation to generation, simply isn't true," he says.

[M.SIGGA]

M-O-R-M-O-N is another way of spelling C-U-L-T. They literally live in a bubble b/c their religion is wack. All the names in the Book of Mormon are actually Egyptian instead of Hebrew and the Native Americans are not descendants of the Israelites - that disobeys the science of land bridge migration and race. They do have a very nice choir though.

[RUN-D.R.E.]

I just moved "back east" to Indiana from Salt Lake City, Utah. I was there 5 years.

IMHO: The movie won't be very effective. Why? Mormons believe that since outsiders are not baptized or active members they are not given the knowledge of truth which can only be received from those who are members. Those who know are "in" those who don't are "out".

Mormons can hold two contradictory thoughts as true at the same time. For example: No one can obtain Godhood unless they first receive a human body but that the Holy Spirit "elected" to not have a body to become the God called the Holy Spirit. Mormons are taught that FAITH is suspending any disbelief.

Mormonism will have to crumble from within itself. And since they believe that a new prophet can totally change doctrines from the past as a new and true revelation, it is not likely to crumble from within any time soon. As rich as their church is, maybe they will split apart over money?!- Join me in praying for those very sincere and Godly Mormons.

[M.SIGGA]

Mormonism will have to crumble from within itself. And since they believe that a new prophet can totally change doctrines from the past as a new and true revelation, it is not likely to crumble from within any time soon. As rich as their church is, maybe they will split apart over money?!- Join me in praying for those very sincere and Godly Mormons.

It's going to be hard to make it crumble because they multiply like bunnies.

I would hold on to hope about the money thing b/c that was the main cause of the Protestant Reformation. I heard the Mormon temple in Portland has a credit card swipe for tithes.

Edited December 4, 2003 by M.SIGGA

[Katholikos]

I agree that the DNA evidence will not topple Mormonism. Mormons ignore the logic and scientific evidence.

Anthropologists have traced the migrations of mankind out of Africa and beyond, into the Americas, through DNA, and it has had no impact on Mormonism. Dental anthropologists have proven through the unique characteritics of the teeth of the American Indians that they are not Israelites, but it has had no impact. There's not one shread of archaeological evidence to support the claims of the Book of Mormon, and yet Mormonism continues to thrive.

It would take a full-scale cordinated effort to collect and dissiminate this DNA study (and other scientific studies) to the Mormons -- a big information campaign -- but there is no one to do it. I doubt the little church in Utah has the resources. And no one would run anti-Mormon ads on their station, either in Utah or elsewhere, even if it were scentifically true.

The grandson of the #1 Mormon "president and prophet," Steve Benson, a syndicated political cartoonist, lives in my city. He quit the LDS church publicly, and said publicly that it was pure bull-oney, and the impact was slim to none. The LDS church continues to make converts at an astonishing rate.

The first target audience should be those young Mormon "missionaries."

JMJ Likos

[Aloysius]

i've heard they already are divided. there's like 6 or 7 different mormon groups now? i think. i kuld be wrong.

[willguy]

Al is right, there are schismatic Mormon groups (schismatic schismatics). A bunch of them split over the polygamy thing. John Krakauer talks about it in his book "Under the Banner of Heaven."

There are a lot of wack things about mormonism. I think one of the problems with discussing with them is how deepset their beliefs are. For one, they never say "I believe...", they say "I know...". It is like self-inforced indoctrination (not to sound mean). I've talked with a couple of missionaries in my area. They are very nice, very sincere, unfortunately misguided young men. I went to a church service with them once (it lasted like 3 hours). Their communion is wonder bread and water (literally). I really ought to call them again and start asking the hard questions (like how the BoM mentions cows and horses in 600AD in the Americas when these animals were brought over by the Europeans).

[phatcatholic]

i wonder if there's a mormon website we could engage in dialogue. what do you guys think?

holla back,

phatapologist

[willguy]

Mormon websites are hard to find. The LDS Church discourages them because they don't want any site to accidentally spread false information. That's why basically the only place you can find information about Mormons online are anti-Mormon site (the official LDS pages have jack for information)

[God Conquers]

haha! I love mormonism... it's something most christians can unite against/find common ground.

There was supposedly this giant war in America where one set of Indians wiped out the mormon believers. Ask a Mormon to show you some archeological evidence of this war which apparently had metal weapons, armor etc. Cause every conflict of that size left stuff behind.

[Petrus]

Even if the movie doesn't impact any Mormons, at least it will discourage non-Mormons from joining!

[nikkan_hanil]

O my goodness is THAT what "LDS" stands for? The Mormons? O my goodnes...well, here's a site claiming that the LDS temples use the pentagram. O man, this could sprout a whole 'nother debate...-_-;

http://www.softcom.net/users/mhreed/The%20...%20Temples.html

[willguy]

nikkan,

I would be careful finding info about the Mormons online, because you'll find a lot of anti-Mormon sites that really twist things or spread lies about the Mormons (mush the same way some sites do about Catholics).

[nikkan_hanil]

Well, some of the stuff said was true (about ancient symbols being twisted around to mean something negative today), but when the day comes I see the pentagram on an LDS temple, I will be shocked. There is a huge Mormon church over near my granpa's house in Cali and we pass by it every the time we go there. It's visually stunning, but to an uneducated Catholic, it wreaks of mysteries (i.e. the trumpet angel on top of the church)...

Edited December 6, 2003 by nikkan_hanil

[willguy]

The angel on top is "Moroni" (the "Italian Angel" as my friend called him). Long story. Don't plan on seeing any more than the outside of the temple. Once it's dedicated, only card-carrying Mormons are allowed in (litterally, they have cards they get from their bishop or whatever they call him that says that they are good Mormons and allowed in the temple).