Eucharistic Prayer in Silence?

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='thessalonian' date='Oct 17 2005, 04:12 PM']I do hope they do something about the proliferation of Eucharistic prayers.  It really bugs me and is a major distraction when the priest goes off on something I've never heard before.
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YES!

Or when he's combining them, or just plain making one up loosely using one for "various needs and occasions" (which he uses more like "everyday")!

I REALLY want to lend this book to my associate pastor as I own Ratzinger's "Feast of Faith" (as well as many of his others), but I'm afraid I wouldn't get it back!

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Oct 17 2005, 04:36 PM']I didn't think there were THAT many different ones.
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I looked them all up after we got a new associate pastor and there are:

4 "main" Eucharistic Prayers (which includes the Roman Canon)
3 for Masses with Children
2 for Masses of Reconcilation ( )
and another 4 for "Various Needs and Occasions"
for a grand total of 13... WAY too many.

[Aloysius]

If I were pope, I'd make an encyclical entitled "Proliferation"

and everyone would think I was talking about nuclear proliferation

and then they'd read and it'd be about liturgical proliferation!

lol jk... i just found the phraseology of "proliferation" in reference to eucharistic prayers quite amusing.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='dspen2005' date='Oct 17 2005, 04:37 PM']the reflection is great... but the private prayer aspect can lead one to fall into the trap of the faithful in years past -- reciting the Rosary during the Mass.  We must follow the counsel of St. Pius X, we must not pray at the Mass, we must PRAY the MAss.... this is key and ultimately foundational in the theological understanding of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
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There is nothing wrong with praying the Roasary during Mass. Pray the Mass if you are able. If not, other devotions are perfectly acceptable, as Pope Pius XII himself acknowledged in Mediator Dei.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Oct 17 2005, 04:39 PM']absolutely. I am old enough to remember the continual clank of rosaries and whispered Hail Marys, and other people dozing off til the bells rang.
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Yes!!!!!!!!!! And we must destroy the Tridentine Mass as a result!!!! It must be the cause of such evils, just as the Novus Ordo is the cause of such evils as armies of euch's (EM's), bad music, bad homilies, female altar boys, and 75% of the Church not believing in Transubstantiation. Makes sense doesn't it?

[Fides_et_Ratio]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Oct 17 2005, 09:50 PM']There is nothing wrong with praying the Roasary during Mass.  Pray the Mass if you are able.  If not, other devotions are perfectly acceptable, as Pope Pius XII himself acknowledged in Mediator Dei.
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even JPII says something (either in Redemptoris Mater or Rosarium Virginis Mariae) about how the Rosary doesn't take away from the Liturgy, but draws one more deeply into it...

I'll see if I can find it

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Oct 17 2005, 04:39 PM']absolutely. I am old enough to remember the continual clank of rosaries and whispered Hail Marys, and other people dozing off til the bells rang.
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Furthermore, I am old and young enough to remember the continual clank of people leaving their pew to go to the bathroom or simply to leave church, whispered complaints of boredom or incredulity, and people dozing off until the recessional, all within the Novus Ordo. What's your point?

I think I'd rather have the clank of rosaries and wispered Ave's

Edited October 18, 2005 by popestpiusx

[Brother Adam]

The whole point of Mediator Dei and Sacrosanctum Concilium was to show that often people were not participating in the mass, and that the faithful should be active participants in their role as the lay faithful. Those who do not participate in the mass to not receive the graces from the mass. The faithful must be disposed to receiving the graces. If you pray a rosary during mass you have received the graces of praying a rosary, not of participating in the mass. (SC)

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Oct 17 2005, 09:59 PM']Furthermore, I am old and young enough to remember the continual clank of people leaving their pew to go to the bathroom or simply to leave church, whispered complaints of boredom or incredulity, and people dozing off until the recessional, all within the Novus Ordo.  What's your point?

I think I'd rather have the clank of rosaries and wispered Ave's
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I'd rather go through the birthing pains of liturgical reform and renewal called for by the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church to reach the place where the Bride of Christ is to go. The mass has been changing for 2000 years. It did not reach the point of perfection in the Tridentine form. Rather in the age of the rubricists the faithful were almost entirely removed from the mass and its meaning.

Edited October 18, 2005 by Brother Adam

[Fides_et_Ratio]

*cough*
[quote]"There are some who think that the centrality of the liturgy, rightly stressed by the Second Vatican Council, necessarily entails giving lesser importance to the Rosary. Yet, as Pope Paul VI made clear, not only does this prayer not conflict with the liturgy, [i]it sustains it[/i], since it serves as an excellent introduction and a faithful echo of the liturgy, enabling people to participate fully and interiorly in it and to reap its fruits in their daily lives"[/quote]
Courtesy our beloved late John Paul II in #4 of Rosarium Virginis Mariae.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Oct 17 2005, 10:01 PM']The whole point of Mediator Dei and Sacrosanctum Concilium was to show that often people were not participating in the mass, and that the faithful should be active participants in their role as the lay faithful. Those who do not participate in the mass to not receive the graces from the mass. The faithful must be disposed to receiving the graces. If you pray a rosary during mass you have received the graces of praying a rosary, not of participating in the mass. (SC)
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If that is the point of Mediator Dei, the Holy Father had a strange way of saying it. In fact, it sounds like just the opposite. If one prays the Rosary at Mass, by virtue of that he participates in the Mass, especially if that is as far as he is able to go (either due to the distraction of his children which you may one day be blessed to experience, or due to his mental capacity). I suggest reading Mediator Dei, especially the sections through the mid 30's for a clear understanding of this.

[Brother Adam]

yeah, okay now let's see it in its full context and that it is not in contradiction with SC 11 and so on. I think the rosary is an excellent introduction and could be prayed before mass every Sunday morning. I'm not so sure JPII is saying what you are trying to make him say.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Oct 17 2005, 10:27 PM']*cough*

Courtesy our beloved late John Paul II in #4 of Rosarium Virginis Mariae.
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Thank you for that most apt quote.

[Fides_et_Ratio]

As JPII would say... devotely praying the Rosary IS a partipation in the Liturgy. They are not at odds.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Oct 17 2005, 10:29 PM']If that is the point of Mediator Dei, the Holy Father had a strange way of saying it.  In fact, it sounds like just the opposite.  If one prays the Rosary at Mass, by virtue of that he participates in the Mass, especially if that is as far as he is able to go (either due to the distraction of his children which you may one day be blessed to experience, or due to his mental capacity).  I suggest reading Mediator Dei, especially the sections through the mid 30's for a clear understanding of this.
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I guess its a good thing I just finished reading all of the liturgical documents then huh? Praying the rosary becuase you don't have the capacity to understand the mass is one thing. Praying it out of the neglect of either ecclesial leaders or willful ignorance is quite another.