Help! Jesus/Mary resisting temptation...

[Ziggamafu]

If they didn't have concupescence (sp.?), then it seems like a no-brainer that they would resist temptation. If Adam and Eve didn't have it, it was stupidity, rather than weakness, that caused their Fall.

Before, I was comforted by the fact that "if Jesus did it, I can to!" But now, I feel like it's impossible to compare my struggle against temptation with Christ's or Mary's because I have concupescence!

I know I can still look to Saints who were very close to perfection...but it really feels like a serious coolness of the BM and JC were lost when my Q&A forum question was answered.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Well then I suppose you misunderstood because our temptations are nothing compared to the temptations of Jesus and Mary. Christ, in His humanity suffered the full force of Satan's attack. Do you remember the scene in Mel Gibson's "The Passion" of Christ in the Garden? That was nothing compared to the real interior torment of Christ which was so intense He was sweating blood.
Sins of weakness are piddly in comparison because they are based on compulsion rather than the deep and terrible darkness that grips the soul in the trials and temptations of the greatest saints, the greatest of all being Our Lady, and of course those of Christ which were extended even beyond the capacity of human nature to endure because of the Hypostatic Union.
I've heard people throw out nonsense of the sort that Christ experienced temptations like we do, for example wanting to check out ladies, but this is impious carp. The fact is Christ suffered temptations of a kind and degree that are beyond anything we could even approach in our frailty.
Jesus was constantly "tested" or tempted in His human nature, and was perfectly faithful to the Father's will. But this was not "easy" as one might mistakingly suggest. He was hardly having a happy time in the garden or on the cross. And one might also reflect upon the interior torment that Our Lady suffered in Her trials and things, always mirroring Her Son.

In fact, in every temptation that you face, Christ is there. He has already taken it upon Himself. And Our Lady is there, in perfect union with Christ, as the compassionate mother. They are mystically united to that temptation and ought to be invited into the experience to be your strength. Christ's life was a life of prayer and fasting, and ultimately mortal combat against the power of Satan. To compare our weak temptations with facing the entire onslaught of Satan (in a very real human nature mind you) is not fair at all.
Even with the Saints, the holier the saint is, and the closer to God they are, the more unspeakable are their temptations.

[Era Might]

St. Paul says the Lord was like us in all things except sin. Christ's lament on the cross ("My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?") was, I think, a true separation from God; it was, in effect, his experience of hell and mortal sin, without actually sinning.

Although Christ could not suffer moral temptation, he could be tempted naturally. For example, when you look at his temptation in the desert, Satan starts off with natural temptations. Christ was human; he could get hungry. It would not be a sin for him to eat. But he was there to fast. The Lord could have turned a rock into bread, and eaten it, but it was not his mission. Satan goes a step higher, and tells him to to jump off a cliff, so that the Angels will save him. This would not be a sin either, but it was not part of the Lord's mission. When those natural temptations fail, Satan asks him to join his kingdom--this would be a sin.

The key to the agony in the garden is Christ's prayer that his father "let the chalice pass". It would be no sin for Christ not to go through with his passion. And so he was tempted to abandon his mission, but he subjected his will to the Father's. This agony is the essence of sin. We are tempted to abandon our mission as pilgrims and servants of God. Christ knew this temptation all too well; differently, of course, but he truly experienced it nonetheless.

Here's a poem by Denise Levertov, called "Salvator Mundi: Via Crucis". It's an interesting reflection on Christ's passion, and the temptation that preceded it:

[quote]Maybe He looked indeed
much as Rembrandt envisioned Him
in those small heads that seem in fact
portraits of more than a model.
A dark, still young, very intelligent face,
a soul-mirror gaze of deep understanding, unjudging.
That face, in extremis, would have clenched its teeth
in a grimace not shown in even the great crucifixions.
The burden of humanness (I begin to see) exacted from Him
that He taste also the humiliation of dread,
cold sweat of wanting to let the whole thing go,
like any mortal hero out of his depth,
like anyone who has taken a step too far
and wants herself back.

The painters, even the greatest, don't show how,
in the midnight Garden,
or staggering uphill under the weight of the Cross.
He went through with even the human longing
to simply cease, to not be.
Not torture of body,
not the hideous betrayals humans commit
not the faithless weakness of friends, and surely
not the anticipation of death (not then, in agony's grip)
was Incarnation's heaviest weight,
but this sickened desire to renege,
to step back from what He, Who was God,
had promised Himself, and had entered
time and flesh to enact.
Sublime acceptance, to be absolute, had to have welled
up from those depths where purpose
drifted for mortal moments.
[/quote]

Edited October 16, 2005 by Era Might

[Ziggamafu]

i guess that makes me feel better, thanks...but just a little better...i still don't grasp how it would be "tempting" to sin if you didn't feel compelled or attracted to the sin in the first place.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='Oct 16 2005, 08:43 AM']i guess that makes me feel better, thanks...but just a little better...i still don't grasp how it would be "tempting" to sin if you didn't feel compelled or attracted to the sin in the first place.
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Not all temptations to sin are because of direct positive effects of the fall. Human nature is capable of temptation without concupiscence. In fact the root of the possibility of temptation to sin is the fact of our free will, not our concupiscence. Concupiscence is basically the darkening of the intellect and the weakening of the will, and since full-consent (will) and full-knowledge (intellect) factor into the gravity of an actual sin, concupiscent sin is less definitive than sin committed in a state of justice and integrity. This is partly why it makes sense that man can commit repeated sins without having definitively rejected God. For the angels it is a one shot deal because they are simple and thus not capable of this fragmented mode of being that us embodied souls are capable of.

I think you equate the capacity for temptation and the effects of concupiscence, but this is not so. My main point is essentially that while Jesus and Mary did not experience concupiscence as we do, they experienced temptation in general with a much higher degree of acuteness and intensity and thus were more properly speaking, tempted.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Oct 16 2005, 07:44 AM']St. Paul says the Lord was like us in all things except sin. Christ's lament on the cross ("My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?") was, I think, a true separation from God; it was, in effect, his experience of hell and mortal sin, without actually sinning.[right][snapback]760138[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
Yes, because whilst this line from Psalm 22 (which Christ was quoting) expresses despair, it is not actually the sin of despair (it is His "sacrifice of praise"). This is a [i]Halel [/i]Psalm (halel = [i]to praise [/i]in Hebrew), a psalm of thanksgiving ([i]eucharistia[/i] in Greek) and the psalm is actually an expression of trust and abandonment to God in the face of a seemingly invincible onslaught of evil. It was the fulfillment of [i]Tohdah[/i], [i]Tehillah[/i], [i]Yadah[/i], [i]Pascha[/i], [i]et cetera[/i].