our interactions with Homosexuals in our community

[Jaime]

Dispen

When you talk about children using epithets on the playground. Are you suggesting that they are picking up that someone is a homosexual?

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Catholic Fanatic' date='Oct 17 2005, 09:27 AM']Remeber the Jesus Christ, the Terrible Judge Himself, preached fire and brimstone. He taught of wailing and gnashing of teeth and not being released until the last penny has been paid, which can never happen.

Would you all would be out there telling the Judge Himself to be more PC?

Your passive nature is venially sinful at best...
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ok, firstly we must chill out. You're coming on a bit strong here, and this board is a positive place. So, if you do want to condemn someone do it privately.

Secondly, I think we are failing to address the questions posed by dspen2005. WHY do we innately (if we innately) recognize homosexuality as disordered? Why is it that children on the playground readily recognize that to be called a homosexual is an insult? I mean, when you explain homosexuality you can only do it one way, because it is the only defining characteristic of the condition: homosexuals have sex with people of the same sex. There's no positive spin here that I can see. So why are we slightly repulsed by that suggestion of same-sex activity? Where does that come from? And of course I don't mean shuddering in revulsion, I mean we recognize it as being wrong. "do you think we innately recognize this state to be disordered in nature, even if we have not intellectually grasped it?"

Let's keep on topic, stop declaring people to be damned, and answer the question please.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='hot stuff' date='Oct 17 2005, 09:36 AM']Dispen

When you talk about children using epithets on the playground.  Are you suggesting that they are picking up that someone is a homosexual?
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he just went to class, so I'll answer for him. No, he is referencing when a child is being picked on and called certain names for something mundane like kicking a ball over a fence or being a little weird. There doesn't have to be evidence of actual homosexuality, though if the boy was wearing a dress to school that might raise some little eyebrows.
Of course, picking up on actual homosexuality might be interesting to pursue. How young do the tendencies occur? hm...unsettling.
I think this mostly occurs in young males, for some reason. We are slightly ignoring the female side of this, which I would hypothesize to be more vicious and less direct. Someone could fill that half in once we've answered the main question.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Oct 17 2005, 09:44 AM']WHY do we innately (if we innately) recognize homosexuality as disordered?  Why is it that children on the playground readily recognize that to be called a homosexual is an insult?  I mean, when you explain homosexuality you can only do it one way, because it is the only defining characteristic of the condition:  homosexuals have sex with people of the same sex.  There's no positive spin here that I can see.  So why are we slightly repulsed by that suggestion of same-sex activity?  Where does that come from?  And of course I don't mean shuddering in revulsion, I mean we recognize it as being wrong.  "do you think we innately recognize this state to be disordered in nature, even if we have not intellectually grasped it?"[right][snapback]761005[/snapback][/right]
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When I was little I always heard people throwing around the word "gay," but I didn't even know what the word it meant until I was 10 or 11. I have an uncle who is a practicing homosexual, and he always brought boyfriends to the house. While I always percieved him and his boyfriend as somewhat different than other adults who were married, I didn't know they were gay until my mom gave me a "talk" about it.

My sexuality was perfectly normal until I got raped. I never was a "tomboy" or anything like that. I played with dolls, loved pink, and never got called gay or lesbian.

Kids get made fun of for all kinds of reasons. The main reason why I got made fun of was that I wore glasses (been wearing them since i was an infant). Some kids get made fun of because they wear geeky clothes or because of their ethnicity.

so, in short, kids are very perceptive to difference, and tend to treat ANY kind of difference as something wrong and disordered, even if it's just wearing glasses or having an accent.

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Oct 17 2005, 09:53 AM']though if the boy was wearing a dress to school that might raise some little eyebrows.[right][snapback]761012[/snapback][/right]
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that's not homosexuality, that's gender identity disorder, a different problem altogether. gender identity disorder has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation.

in the past it has been fashionable for men to wear things like togas, tunics, kilts and other dresses. You can call it whatever you want, but it's a dress. a rather masculine dress, but still a dress.

[cmotherofpirl]

Kids have a very narrow definition of what is normal, so anything outside their boundaries is by definition "ab normal." Kids who like music or art and not sports-minded at a young age are often labeled abnormal by their peers, and the nastiest thing they can think to call someone is gay.
They have heard it from the older kids, and they unthinkingly pass on the label, rarely having a clue what it means.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Oct 17 2005, 10:14 AM']that's not homosexuality, that's gender identity disorder, a different problem altogether.  gender identity disorder has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation.

in the past it has been fashionable for men to wear things like togas, tunics, kilts and other dresses.  You can call it whatever you want, but it's a dress.  a rather masculine dress, but still a dress.
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oh Lord, save us from humorless. It was a joke. When I typed it I actually thought to myself, "you know, some plucky individual is going to rise to the occasion to inform me that this is gender identity disorder." But I decided to tempt fate.

For goodness sake.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Oct 17 2005, 10:14 AM']When I was little I always heard people throwing around the word "gay," but I didn't even know what the word it meant until I was 10 or 11.  I have an uncle who is a practicing homosexual, and he always brought boyfriends to the house.  While I always percieved him and his boyfriend as somewhat different than other adults who were married, I didn't know they were gay until my mom gave me a "talk" about it.

My sexuality was perfectly normal until I got raped.  I never was a "tomboy" or anything like that.  I played with dolls, loved pink, and never got called gay or lesbian.

Kids get made fun of for all kinds of reasons.  The main reason why I got made fun of was that I wore glasses (been wearing them since i was an infant).  Some kids get made fun of because they wear geeky clothes or because of their ethnicity.

so, in short, kids are very perceptive to difference, and tend to treat ANY kind of difference as something wrong and disordered, even if it's just wearing glasses or having an accent.

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insightful personal experience. I agree that kids who are different are labelled "gay" but I'm interested in why this epithet is so effective and universally accepted among playgrounds.

[dspen2005]

maybe there is an underlying concept of what is in congruence with nature. Men and women are naturally in conformity with one another insofar as relationships are concerned in this discussion. Philosophical schools hold that man is in a constant search for the Truth; the CCC tells us that we have a natural inclination to that which is true and tends toward the "good". If we are made in the image and likeness of God, as Divine Revelation tells us and the Church confirms, then we are participants in the very nature of Truth; we are oriented toward a search for God who is all Truth.
This is a foundational philosophical basis of Catholic theology. We can apply the implications of this to our discussion of the question at hand.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Oct 17 2005, 12:24 PM']oh Lord, save us from humorless.  It was a joke.  When I typed it I actually thought to myself, "you know, some plucky individual is going to rise to the occasion to inform me that this is gender identity disorder."  But I decided to tempt fate.

For goodness sake.
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if you're not ignorant, then don't act ignorant. then people will stop correcting you.

[track2004]

I think a lot of the playground talk you're talking about is between boys, I never remember it among the girls in my class. Being 'gay' for a young boy is equating him with being a girl somehow. I think its a derivation of the "you throw like a girl" comments. It attacks their ability to be "boys". Society also sees boys as better than girls, so emasculating a boy hurts, though they might not really understand it.

[Era Might]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Oct 17 2005, 09:13 AM']Courage isn't all over the place like AA.  there are a lot of priests and other Catholics out there that don't even know it exists, sadly.  And speaking as someone who doesn't have a car and depends on others for rides, it's very hard to get a ride anywhere.
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No, but I think the assumption here is that Catholics would not be compassionate towards someone who lapses into sexual sin. My experience of the Church when I first entered was entirely positive. I didn't know anyone in the parish. The Priest pretty much introduced himself to me, and everyone welcomed me as I got involved. If I did have some sort of problem, I know they would have been there to help me. I remember the Priest telling me, as I was discerning the Priesthood, that the parish was there for me, if I need a ride or whatever, or even financially, if need be.

Is every Priest or parish going to be like this? No, not necessarily. But I think the vast majority of Catholics aren't cold people who turn you away because your sin happens to be below the belt.

Edited October 17, 2005 by Era Might

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Oct 17 2005, 01:46 PM']if you're not ignorant, then don't act ignorant.  then people will stop correcting you.
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it's not a question of ignorance. the comment did not require correction. It was not presented as central or factual, it was merely a cheeky little side comment which is considerably less funny now that we have discussed it and given it weight it was never meant to hold.

flimshaw, back to the topic.

[dspen2005]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Oct 17 2005, 01:46 PM']if you're not ignorant, then don't act ignorant.  then people will stop correcting you.
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I think that was uncalled for... and uncharitable. The comment made my toledo_jesus was tongue-in-cheek, I would presume. It was obvious that it didn't hold merit within the context of the discussion -- it was an IA, intellectual aside. Now, since you are being corrected, is that a sign of your own ignorance?

[cmotherofpirl]

to one and all : practice your charity and manners please
its hard to read intent on a borad

[dspen2005]

yes mother.