Dave Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Oct 20 2005, 08:45 PM']Oh get over it! I'm sure the Holy Father would've been much more effective if he ran around spitting on everyone he met who wasn't a Catholic rather than showing them respect! Do you "Trads" really have nothing better to do than dig through everything straining to find any way a Pope was at fault, then dwell on this inordinately even after the Pope in question is dead? What's the point?? Sam, you should spend more time training for wrestling, and less time mucking around on schismatic websites! [right][snapback]765496[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Amen and amen!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Oct 20 2005, 08:36 PM']believe me im not judging anything rashly. nor am i to say that the pope is sinning. but i also think its wrong for the vicar of christ to do that. show me some pre-concliar popes kissing an aglicans hand. do you think saint peter would kiss the hand of a heretic? [right][snapback]765488[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Sam, Sam, Sam...... It's a good thing that Cardinal Newman didn't hold that same view.... And can you cite the site for me so I can see that the Pope was actually kissing his ring and not simply grasping his hand. A reputable source would be nice, not a schismatic website. I am quite familiar with the Remnant crowd. Michael Matt and I have gone 'round and 'round before..... REPUTABLE SOURCE FOR THAT PICTURE, SAM!!!!!! Thanks. And you do judge...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avemaria40 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Jesus hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors. Also, yes, there is heresy, however, arent' we supposed to be respectful of those who are different than us? I won't speak for St. Peter, i don't know what he would think, but then again, Pope John Paul's kissing the hand of the Anglican bishop showed respect, which helps lead to ecumenism. We are also starting to agree with Protestants on many things. Our belief in Jesus is the same and we believe in morals and everything else. Protestant activists are as much likely to fight against abortion and pornography as Catholics are. Lately, Protestants have even taken up devotion to Mary! And, as I have said in a previous posts, it was the influence of Protestant friends and family, as well as a movie about a great saint that lead me into the Catholic Church. I don't see anything wrong with that. They are also some of the most godly ppl I know. We're closer to unity now with peace and tolerance than we ever were with hundreds of years of Crusades and Inquisitions which has sprung a lot of hate for the Catholic Church, from the secular world to the Middle East (persecution of Catholics in Iraq and Saudi Arabia and other places) to anti-Catholic history in America (in the 1800's Catholic immigrants were given the untrue, unkind nickname of "Bible burners") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Oct 20 2005, 07:45 PM']Oh get over it! I'm sure the Holy Father would've been much more effective if he ran around spitting on everyone he met who wasn't a Catholic rather than showing them respect! Do you "Trads" really have nothing better to do than dig through everything straining to find any way a Pope was at fault, then dwell on this inordinately even after the Pope in question is dead? What's the point?? Sam, you should spend more time training for wrestling, and less time mucking around on schismatic websites! [right][snapback]765496[/snapback][/right] [/quote] lol im in football now. the reason we sift through these pictures of his Holiness is to show people that maybe he was not really such a good pope. i don't like to dwell on anyones faults, because God knows that i have more than most, but i also think that the Pope was Wrong (more than one has been in the past). So to find things the man did wrong might show that what he thought may be in some way wrong as well. but i still really like Jp2 even if i think he was a bad pope. he drew me back to catholicism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Oct 20 2005, 07:51 PM']Sam, Sam, Sam...... It's a good thing that Cardinal Newman didn't hold that same view.... And can you cite the site for me so I can see that the Pope was actually kissing his ring and not simply grasping his hand. A reputable source would be nice, not a schismatic website. I am quite familiar with the Remnant crowd. Michael Matt and I have gone 'round and 'round before..... REPUTABLE SOURCE FOR THAT PICTURE, SAM!!!!!! Thanks. And you do judge...... [right][snapback]765502[/snapback][/right] [/quote] did Cardinal newman kiss anglican bishops hands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Oct 20 2005, 10:12 PM']did Cardinal newman kiss anglican bishops hands? [right][snapback]765562[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Cardinal Newman WAS an Anglican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 (edited) i thought that he converted from anglicanism to catholicism Edited October 21, 2005 by Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Oct 20 2005, 10:21 PM']i thought that he converted from anglicanism to catholicism [right][snapback]765574[/snapback][/right] [/quote] He did. But I am sure that he kissed the ring of an Anglican bishop at some time in his life. Are you going to quote that picture source from a reputable source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 (edited) you just asked me for some evidence. he might have done it before he converted to catholicism but that dosen't make it right. Edited October 21, 2005 by Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Oct 20 2005, 10:25 PM']you just asked me for some evidence. he might have done it before he converted to catholicism but that dosen't make it right. [right][snapback]765580[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Sam, what are you talking about.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 [quote name='Cam42' date='Oct 20 2005, 07:51 PM']Sam, Sam, Sam...... It's a good thing that Cardinal Newman didn't hold that same view.... And can you cite the site for me so I can see that the Pope was actually kissing his ring and not simply grasping his hand. A reputable source would be nice, not a schismatic website. I am quite familiar with the Remnant crowd. Michael Matt and I have gone 'round and 'round before..... REPUTABLE SOURCE FOR THAT PICTURE, SAM!!!!!! Thanks. And you do judge...... [right][snapback]765502[/snapback][/right] [/quote] you said that the picture didn't prove that the man kissed the anglicans ring. so prove that newman kissed an anglicans ring. at least i have a picture. sorry if my last post was unclear sam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Oct 20 2005, 09:11 PM']the reason we sift through these pictures of his Holiness is to show people that maybe he was not really such a good pope. i don't like to dwell on anyones faults, because God knows that i have more than most, but i also think that the Pope was Wrong (more than one has been in the past). So to find things the man did wrong might show that what he thought may be in some way wrong as well. [right][snapback]765560[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I find your honesty here refreshing! LOL Why is "proving" that John Paul II was a "bad Pope" such a high priority? This sounds more like a smear campaign that anything else. If you set out to find ways in which someone is bad, you can always come up with something, or at least misinterpret the facts to "prove" your point. And even if it could be proven that this Pope was a terrible sinner, and committed abominable sins every night, that would have no bearing on the truth of his teachings. Papal infallibility does not depend on the personal virtue of the Pope! (btw - I believe John Paul II to be an exceedingly holy Pope.) The people on these sites are merely desperately trying to degrade this Pope to justify their own rebellion. Anyone should be able to see this! Remember, judge not lest ye be judged yourself! (Holier than thou you are!) Better start hitting those blocking dummies instead of "beating up" on the reputation of Sovereign Pontiffs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 [color=330000]Both masses are valid and approved. I go to the new mass usually. But I have been to the old mass a couple times, it is very beautiful! [/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 [quote name='Extra ecclesiam nulla salus' date='Oct 20 2005, 10:38 PM']you said that the picture didn't prove that the man kissed the anglicans ring. so prove that newman kissed an anglicans ring. at least i have a picture. sorry if my last post was unclear sam [right][snapback]765592[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Sam, it doesn't matter....John Henry Cardinal Newman was an Anglican, I can deduce that at some point he would have kissed the ring of the Archbishop of Canterbury. He was a fellow at Trinity College after all. Sam, you are being ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 (edited) i would say that i am not judging the pope. im just showing others what he does. if the pope aks un-catholic, but then says that he is not acting un-catholic than something is wrong. Edited October 21, 2005 by Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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