Ora et Labora Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 Any facts on this organization will be helpful. And this thread was inspired by Sams. It seems that people are getting into arguments about the Old and New Mass. It is one thing to [i]prefer[/i] the Latin Mass then to only [i]eccept [/i] the Latin Mass. I for one would prefer to go to the Latin mass but I eccept any other. Theres a difference, and back to my origional topic, SSPX only eccepts the Tridentine mass and do not eccept Vatican II, yet, the SSPX priests are not in schism. Why? Thank you! Yours in Christ, Kristina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 SSPX priests are in schism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted October 14, 2005 Author Share Posted October 14, 2005 well, i heard they arnt. they have valid masses at the SSPX chapels...can you do that when your in schism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 yep. the masses are valid, but illicit (i.e. against church law) it is against church law to schedule a public mass without the consent of the local ordinary. SSPX bishops were illicitly ordained as bishops and as such do not have any real jurisdiction over any area. if the society refuses to be governed by the competant authorities as determined by Rome and rejects a valid ecumenical council, they are in schism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted October 14, 2005 Author Share Posted October 14, 2005 i still dont understand...there in schism but they can still say masses?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 so are the eastern orthodox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted October 14, 2005 Author Share Posted October 14, 2005 really? i didnt know that....interesting. so, let me get this straight, the sspx are in schism but, since they are rightly ordained, they can say valid masses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 [quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Oct 13 2005, 11:15 PM']really? i didnt know that....interesting. so, let me get this straight, the sspx are in schism but, since they are rightly ordained, they can say valid masses? [right][snapback]757750[/snapback][/right] [/quote] That is correct. Validity and licitness are two completely separate issues. Because Archbishop Lefevbre was validly ordained (sic. consecrated) a bishop, when he ordained (sic. consecrated) the SSPX bishops, the action was valid. However, since he did not have permission from the Holy Father, which is required, the action was schismatic in nature (cf. CCC 2089). This action created the suspension and excommunication of the bishops and those they ordain. The ordinations that these bishops perform are valid, but illicit. Those who are ordained are immediately suspended from having faculties. With that being the case, they can still say Mass, because they are validly ordained, however, they don't have faculties (which are granted by the local Ordinary) to administer ANY sacraments, which include saying a licit Mass, 1962 or otherwise...... It is under dubious sentiments that one who is communion with Rome should ever attend an SSPX Mass. Those who are attending the Mass are not excommunicated, only the clergy. However, they are participating in a schismatic action and therefore it is illicit. I hope this clears things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted October 14, 2005 Author Share Posted October 14, 2005 It clears it up a little... But performing the Holy Eucharist in Mass is a sacrament! And you said that they cant perform any sacraments.... And so the people who are SSPX other than the Bishops and priests are excommunicated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam42 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 [quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Oct 14 2005, 12:31 PM']It clears it up a little... But performing the Holy Eucharist in Mass is a sacrament! And you said that they cant perform any sacraments.... And so the people who are SSPX other than the Bishops and priests are excommunicated? [right][snapback]758308[/snapback][/right] [/quote] They can't perform any sacraments [b]licitly[/b]. No, the people who attend their Masses are not excommunicated, only participate in a schismatic action. The excommunications and formal schism are only applied to the formal members of the SSPX. Since it is a priestly society, the laity are merely participants in the schismatic action. [url="http://sspx.agenda.tripod.com/"]Agenda[/url] is a great site to learn about the misleadings of the SSPX. The webmaster is a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Their bake sales are also illicit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendan1104 Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 Once again, I repeat: THE SSPX ISN'T IN SCHISM! will dust or someone please remove this before another pointless, flame war erupts on PM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach_cube Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 brendan, based on the whole "having phishy labels" being dust's design...good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra ecclesiam nulla salus Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 the sspx does not say that the new mass is invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ora et Labora Posted October 15, 2005 Author Share Posted October 15, 2005 I know Sam...thats what I was asking! And I am not trying to start arguments. And Brendan, this is the debate table.....hello?! Where do you propose I ask these questions? ~Kristina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts