Catholic Unity?

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

Well, I can say, that almost without doubt all of the people in my church believe the same thing. They have to agree to our Christian beliefs and profess faith in Christ and the Bible as their authority in order to become members. I can't speak for all of the denominations out there, but we aren't affiliated with all of the denominations out there. We as believers are united in what we believe, about the Lord's Supper, baptism, salvation, and so on. It seems that recent polls, even Catholics I speak to, show that less than 50% of your members agree on the Lord's Supper being truly Jesus Christ. How do issues like this prove catholic unity in your Church?

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Jesuspaidtheprice' date='Oct 12 2005, 09:07 AM']Well, I can say, that almost without doubt all of the people in my church believe the same thing. They have to agree to our Christian beliefs and profess faith in Christ and the Bible as their authority in order to become members. I can't speak for all of the denominations out there, but we aren't affiliated with all of the denominations out there. We as believers are united in what we believe, about the Lord's Supper, baptism, salvation, and so on. It seems that recent polls, even Catholics I speak to, show that less than 50% of your members agree on the Lord's Supper being truly Jesus Christ. How do issues like this prove catholic unity in your Church?
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It only proves that if you do not hold with the beliefs of a particular group, you are de facto not a member of that group. Those "Catholics" who reject the belief that Jesus is Truly Present in the Eucharist have entered into a seldom discussed state of excommunication. There are fellas on here who can quote Canon Law for you, but my first sentence is pretty much the gist. If you don't believe, you can't be called a Catholic in good standing. People just don't think like that though. This is a solid board where you will find Catholics who take the time to either be taught or teach themselves what the Church believes, so you are lucky my friend. You're getting the real deal here.

[jasJis]

I'm amused. If you disagree with someone, you aren't wrong, you just seperate yourself from them and start a new denomination of like thinkers so you can all believe you are right. Seems silly.

The Catholic Church is consistent on Dogma, the basic facts. Building on that we grow in understanding and improve in it's application. Catholic bashers say that's changing beliefs, but forget we are humans and don't consider the different 'protestant christian' denominations.

If someone says they don't believe in the Real Presence, they are Wrong. That's not a failure of the Dogma of the Church, but a failure to proper catechize the Faithful.

[Jesuspaidtheprice]

So, if a person is in a state of 'excommunication' why are they still allowed to share in the common table of the believers. It seems the masses I have been to, everyone goes to receive the Lord's Supper in your Church, but it would seem that not every single person would believe in your Cathoilc teachings, nor aparently be in what is called 'a state of grace'.

jasJis,

If we are wrong, then we must be corrected by other believers, but it is not overly difficult with careful study to understand the message of the Scriptures and to hold fast to what is true.

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='Jesuspaidtheprice' date='Oct 12 2005, 10:19 AM']So, if a person is in a state of 'excommunication' why are they still allowed to share in the common table of the believers.
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because they don't hand out papers to prove that you're a catholic in good standing, to be renewed like a driver's license.

[Aloysius]

it is fine for us to doubt our beliefs, we should simply never believe our doubts

the poll about the Eucharist had confusing wording; all it showed is that the average Catholic in America doesn't know how to explain the real presence, not that he doesn't believe in it.

besides, our Church, unlike most protestant denominations, is worldwide. the majority of Catholics are in Latin America and Europe, so what a few dissident Catholics in the United States disagree with doesn't mean much.

it's easy for one small little flock to all believe the same thing. But Christ called His believers all over the world to be in one flock with one shepherd. that's a little bit more dificult. we cannot brainwash people or read their minds and hearts to stop everyone who dissents from receiving the Eucharist. they'll have to answer to God for receiving it unworthily if they believe against it.

while it's all fine and dandy that your small church is unified in belief, it doesn't even matter if each other individual denomination is unified.. because each of them are disunified with each other, and that's important.

the Catholic Church has the most universal wordlwide and unified body of Christian believers, though there are some dissidents in America and Europe and such that still claim to be Catholic even though they have excommunicated themselves out of communion with the Church...

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Jesuspaidtheprice' date='Oct 12 2005, 10:19 AM']So, if a person is in a state of 'excommunication' why are they still allowed to share in the common table of the believers. It seems the masses I have been to, everyone goes to receive the Lord's Supper in your Church, but it would seem that not every single person would believe in your Cathoilc teachings, nor aparently be in what is called 'a state of grace'.

jasJis,

If we are wrong, then we must be corrected by other believers, but it is not overly difficult with careful study to understand the message of the Scriptures and to hold fast to what is true.
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First of all for one to be in a state of excommunication, they must know what the Church teaches, understand it, and reject it with a full act of will. Someone is not in a "state of excommunication" as you call it who does not understand a teaching or know that the Church teaches it. They may be in mortal sin however if they don't know out of neglect in coming to a knowledge of the truth of what the Church teaches. If they reject what the Church teaches, unless it is a very public figure, it is left up to the individual conscience as to whether or not they should attend communion. The priest doesn't ask every communicant when they come up "should you be recieving?". That would be silly. Further one cannot assume that the one coming forward is in a sin, even if he saw him committ it a couple of days before because he may well have been to confession. Public figures have from time to time been denied communion. Also those who wear rainbow sashes, externally displaying their support of homosexual behavior against Church teaching have been denied. In General it seems your question stems from a lack of understanding of Catholicism, rather than contraditions in the faith.

More than likely many who do recieve should not. But it was no different in Paul's day. If you look in 1 Cor 11 that is exactly his complaint. People are recieving when they should not be.

Sorry, study won't get you to the full truth of the scriptures. Paul says "hold fast to the TRADITIONS you have recieved, whether by WORD OF MOUTH or in writing from us.". You believe a set of traditions that your church teaches. You may well deny this but it is true. It is very difficult for you to see beyond those traditions. I will wager you will admit that your Church does not have everything right, i.e. it is not infallible. Yet, if it is easy to determine exactly what scripture says, then you should be able to tell me the things that your Church teaches that are not true.

I'm waiting......................................


Blessings

[jasJis]

[quote name='Cow of Shame' date='Oct 12 2005, 10:37 AM']because they don't hand out papers to prove that you're a catholic in good standing, to be renewed like a driver's license.
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[/quote]You mean the card in my wallet may be fake?

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='jasJis' date='Oct 12 2005, 11:28 AM']You mean the card in my wallet may be fake? 
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if it glows in the dark with the holy light of Jesus, then it's real.

otherwise, it's a tool of Satan: may it burn a hole in your jeans & expose your lacy undergarments to your mocking coworkers

[God Conquers]

[quote name='jasJis']The Catholic Church is consistent on Dogma, the basic facts. Building on that we grow in understanding and improve in it's application. [/quote]

Man... that's an awesome way of putting it.

[dspen2005]

1. The poll has been questioned for its methodology
2. Catholics do not go to Church to hear the priest give his homily -- so says my Scripture prof at the Seminary -- they go to Church because of the Eucharist. This would seem to indicate their belief in something. What something could that be to draw the faithful to Mass weekly .. but the Real Presence?

[Socrates]

[quote name='Jesuspaidtheprice' date='Oct 12 2005, 08:07 AM']Well, I can say, that almost without doubt all of the people in my church believe the same thing. They have to agree to our Christian beliefs and profess faith in Christ and the Bible as their authority in order to become members. I can't speak for all of the denominations out there, but we aren't affiliated with all of the denominations out there. We as believers are united in what we believe, about the Lord's Supper, baptism, salvation, and so on. It seems that recent polls, even Catholics I speak to, show that less than 50% of your members agree on the Lord's Supper being truly Jesus Christ. How do issues like this prove catholic unity in your Church?
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They show merely that many so-called "Catholics" are not really Catholics. If one believes in the teachings of the Church (as taught by the Magisterium), he is truly Catholic.

For example, the Church beleives that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist. Everyone who is truly Catholic in his beliefs believes that. If he believes other than that, he seperates himself from the Church by his heresy.

Edited October 13, 2005 by Socrates

[Benedict]

A number of Catholics think going to Catholic school or having a religious mother/grandmother entitles them to the name Catholic for life.

I have found this to be especially prevalent in New York.

[Cow of Shame]

ayep....[b]tons[/b] of cultural Catholics out there. I went to college with one. Never went to church, probably believed very little of what the Catholic church teaches, but if you asked him his denomination..."Catholic" would be the reply.

*shrug* You'll likely find a lot of Jews out there that claim to be Jews, but do not practice nor really believe...

[thessalonian]

I can listen to Catholic radio for weeks on end and hear almost nothing that I disagree with from the hosts, guests, even the callers to the talk shows and question shows. Yet when I listen to Protestant radio one guy teaches that baptism is neccessary for salvation (Lutheran Pastor) a baptist pastor is on the health and wealth side and has openly supported open theism, while another guy says even our faith doesn't save us. They contradict eachother to no end. And then as you can see in another thread they have guys with their bibles calling in and debating with them about everything under the sun. There are more theologies than there are heads. Sorry I didn't come up with that, Martin Luther did. Kind of makes "blown about by every wind of doctrine" come to life if you ask me. No, there is far more unity in the Catholic faith than in Protestantism and that is how it must be compared because one teaches the Bible Alone (which is really the Bible + my opinion which is what God says) which is nowhere found in scripture or Tradition and Scripture just as spoken in 2 Thess 2:15 "Hold fast to the TRADITIONS you have recieved, whether by word of mouth or in writing from us.".


Blessings