An American Pope and the Pledge...

[son_of_angels]

By removing the two party system, one would simply replace the two parties with multi-party coalitions where the interests of constituencies are overturned for the sake of maintaining minority goverments.

That's why democratic republics are such fiendish inventions....

[White Knight]

I think, if this American Pope was ever elected, and if he came to visit this nation, then he sould have the "choice" rather to say it or not to say it, it souldn't be forced upon another person who lvies outside America.

[journeyman]

This should not be a unique question to Americans. The present Pope was born in Germany. Did he renounce his German citizenship when he was elected? Had he previously renounced it when he became a senior member of the Curia?

This question applies even to the Italians, since since the early 1900s Italy and the Vatican have been two separate governments.

Hmm, this sounds like a legal question, scurries off to find Code of Canon Law

[journeyman]

no quick answer there . . . Wikipedia

At the end of 2003, 552 persons held Vatican citizenship, of whom 61 were cardinals, 346 were other clergy, 101 members of the Pontifical Swiss Guard and 44 were other lay persons. Nearly all these people were dual citizens, retaining citizenship of their own countries while working at the Vatican.
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City[/url]

which mirrors the Vatican statement
[url="http://www.vatican.va/news_services/press/documentazione/documents/sp_ss_scv/informazione_generale/cittadini-vaticani_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/news_services/press/...aticani_en.html[/url]


Acquisition and loss of citizenship, authorization to reside in the State of Vatican City and formalities to enter, are set out in the Law N. III of 7 June 1929, on citizenship and residence, and in the Regulation N. XXXVI of 27 September 1932, for entrance to Vatican City.
[url="http://www.vatican.va/news_services/press/documentazione/documents/sp_ss_scv/informazione_generale/sp_ss_scv_info-generale_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/news_services/press/...enerale_en.html[/url]


The Vatican has citizens (1500 persons), but there is nobody with only Vatican citizenship. For example, the Pope is citizen of both the Vatican and Poland. The other peculiarity is that the Vatican issues only diplomatic passports, so this is a country, where all the citizens are diplomats.
Maxval, 14 March 2001
unsubstantiated information from:
[url="http://flagspot.net/flags/va.html"]http://flagspot.net/flags/va.html[/url]


Vatican City State's estimated 700 inhabitants include people of many nationalities, though most are Italian. At least 400 have Vatican citizenship, including those prelates who are heads of dicasteries in the Roman Curia. All cardinals have automatic Vatican citizenship but preserve their original citizenship.
[url="http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=48814"]http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=48814[/url]

Maybe there is something in the new Fundamental Law of the State of Vatican City
[url="http://www.vatican.va/vatican_city_state/legislation/index.htm"]http://www.vatican.va/vatican_city_state/l...ation/index.htm[/url]
if you speak Italian, German or Portuguese

[CatholicWarrior]

[quote name='dspen2005' date='Oct 11 2005, 04:42 PM']Any Catholic's first allegiance is to God and His Church.....
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Ironic that I find my response to this in today's mass readings:

[quote]Tell us, then, what is your opinion: Is it lawful to pay the census tax to Caesar or not?"

Knowing their malice, Jesus said, "Why are you testing me, you hypocrites?

Show me the coin that pays the census tax." Then they handed him the Roman coin.

He said to them, "Whose image is this and whose inscription?"

They replied, "Caesar's." 13 At that he said to them, "Then repay to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God."

When they heard this they were amazed, and leaving him they went away.[/quote]

Render the loyalty to your country and to your Church. I look to my nation for defense, commerce and other things -- but to my Church for my spiritual well-being.

[Timothy]

[quote name='Didacus' date='Oct 11 2005, 11:38 AM']I agree.

I am also of the opinion that I hold the Vatican authority higher than my own country.  I'm Canadien however.  (aka; I would not fight in a war for Canada unless the vatican would declare it a 'just war' for example).
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True

[Aloysius]

I'm a cafeteria american.

[Didacus]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Oct 20 2005, 02:02 PM']I'm a cafeteria american.
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i've said it before, the shortest replies are often the most meaningful and funniest! Good show!

About not going to war unless it is a just war declared by the Vatican, i think this would make an interest and enlightening debate. I, for one, stand that I would not, though I admit I have not been placed in this situation and thus have not given it the greatest of thoughts. Anyone willing to start a thread?


Or, maybe?

[termitescoming4u!]

[quote name='CatholicWarrior' date='Oct 17 2005, 12:03 AM']Ironic that I find my response to this in today's mass readings:
Render the loyalty to your country and to your Church.  I look to my nation for defense, commerce and other things -- but to my Church for my spiritual well-being.
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THAT IS SOOOO TRUE. I SUPPOT U 100% IN THIS.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Oct 20 2005, 03:02 PM']I'm a cafeteria american.
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me too!

[tojo]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Oct 20 2005, 03:02 PM']I'm a cafeteria american.
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LOL, me too brother...