Duc_In_Altum Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 If an American Cardinal was elected Pope, could he still be justified in reciting the American Pledge of Allegiance? peace, -Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_angels Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 No, he would be the head of state for another nation, and should renounce all other allegiances. At least that is my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I agree. I am also of the opinion that I hold the Vatican authority higher than my own country. I'm Canadien however. (aka; I would not fight in a war for Canada unless the vatican would declare it a 'just war' for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dspen2005 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Any Catholic's first allegiance is to God and His Church..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 When someone becomes pope, doesn't he loose his other citizenships? Or was that just with JPII because Poland was communist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 though since the Vatican is not in the business of declaring which individual war is just or unjust, Didacus may be taking it a little too far. we ought to defend our country. the Vatican does not claim spiritual expertise over matters of the secuirity of nations, just provides the principals that must be applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 (edited) I'm not sure. What does it mean to pledge "allegiance" to America. It certainly doesn't mean you accept anything and everything America does or says. Americans disagree over lots of stuff, even the constitution itself. It doesn't mean you will obey everything America decrees. I don't see why an American Pope couldn't pledge allegiance to his homeland. If he disagreed with it, he could do what every other American does: complain. : Edited October 11, 2005 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I donno... a head of another state pledging allegiance to america? that really wouldn't go over too well... he could do it privately if he really wanted to i suppose... but I'm picturing like... every morning he raises this big huge american flag from that pointy thing in St. Peter's square and then says it over a big microphone and afterwards shoots fireworks off and passes out apple pie as they all prepare to go to the baseball game... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duc_In_Altum Posted October 11, 2005 Author Share Posted October 11, 2005 Perhaps it would be a good idea in order to gain support and pride of Americans for the teachings of the Church. It might give them someone who tells them they love them and desires that they would change their ways and their culture. I think it could gain considerable pull with the president as well. I'm not sure though. Thats all theoretical peace, -Joe ps- I could go for some baseball right now, now that I think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_angels Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Unfortunately, every time a pope has pledged allegiances to a particular nation in the past, it has always led to bad consequences for both that Pope and the nation he allies himself with. Personally, I would rather have a pope give my country the cold shoulder than risk the wrath of a hundred nations, and risk the scandalization of my faith, in order to have the pope's allegiance. Not only that, I look for the day when the American flag burns and the Vatican flag is raised over the White House (but that's just my fantasy world). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photosynthesis Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 the words "American" and "pope" don't seem to go together, but I guess stranger things have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 I read that the Vatican really dreads the idea of an American pope, purely on grounds that the rest of the world would see it as an Americanization of the Church to go along with the Americanization of the world at large. Besides, according to the US DoS, if you declare an oath to any other political body (such as the Vatican) you tacitly renounce your American citizenship. I think it says that in my passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duc_In_Altum Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 [quote]Besides, according to the US DoS, if you declare an oath to any other political body (such as the Vatican) you tacitly renounce your American citizenship.[/quote] I think that's our answer. Also... [quote] I look for the day when the American flag burns and the Vatican flag is raised over the White House (but that's just my fantasy world). [/quote] Should we start a debate thread on patriotism? peace, -Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son_of_angels Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 I am quite patriotic, in my own cynical way. Nonetheless I am not an "American" Catholic, I am a Roman Catholic, of the Latin Rite. My ultimate leader and government is in a hierarchy which culminates in Rome, and which, I pray, shall one day have pride of place in the governance of this people. Nonetheless, I agree, an American Pope could be disastrous. Personally, I should hope for one from Africa or one of the countries with an alive and growing Catholic community.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted October 13, 2005 Share Posted October 13, 2005 I have an odd love/hate relationship with America. I love the people and their ideosyncrasies, but I'm much more sectionalistic than patriotic. Indiana means much more to me than America at large, yet it has itself an ugly history of racism, exploitation, and anti-Catholicism. I think American politics are deplorable, but I understand that most people are so entrenched in it that it will never change. I really hate to be the guy that treats any of the Founding Fathers like gods, but Washington really was right in his stance against a dualistic party system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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