bookofjohn Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 (edited) Dear all, Why does God does command believers to kill unbelievers: • Woman with “familiar spirits” must be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27). • Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. (Exodus 22:18). • You must kill those who worship another god. (Exodus 22:20). • Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10). • Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. (Mark 6:11). • Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. (Deuteronomy 13:12-16). • Stone to death everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. (Deuteronomy 17:2-7). • Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. (Deuteronomy 17:12-13). • Kill any false prophets. (Deuteronomy 18:20) • God destroys those who don’t believe in him. (Jude 1:5). How are these actions consistent with His nature (i.e. God is Love)? Edited October 7, 2005 by bookofjohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 (edited) Well, it would first be useful to define what love is. Love is not mushy sentimentalism. It's not a license to do whatever you want with no consequences. When St. John tells us that "God is Love", he is telling us something about his nature. Love has three components: the lover, the beloved, and the love itself (hat tip Peter Kreeft). St. John is telling us, in effect, that God is a Trinity. Each person of the Godhead gives himself completely over the the others. This is love. The Lord gave himself completely to man when he created him. As we know, we didn't take this too seriously. We lost our communion with God through sin. We introduced death and disorder. Like any good Father, the Lord didn't swoop down on his wings and erase the consequences of our decision. He let us face them. He proscribed death for those who sinned in a particularly grievous way. But he did all this with a caveat; the promise of a redeemer. The Lord once again gave himself completely to man on the cross. Not only did he allow man to face the consequences of his decision, but he became man and shared in those consequences himself, though he was infinitely holy and deserved none of it. He shared our suffering, our tears, our sorror, and ultimately, our death. Sin is an infinitely heinous crime against an infinitely holy God. He has extended his forgiveness, but he will not be mocked. The time of salvation is now. Judgement is the only possible end for those who refused his mercy. The temporal harshness of the Old Testament served both as a witness to the degradation man had brought upon himself, and a foreshadowing of God's judgement. It also had a practical effect, to the extent that it protected the nation of Israel from idolatry and other errors. Edited October 7, 2005 by Era Might Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Agreed on that last point. in OT times, life was very Hobbesian, and the image of a teddy bear God wouldn't last long while the Israelites kept getting thumped in wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cow of Shame Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 So, the only one that was written after Jesus was "Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. (Mark 6:11)." correct? And THAT one was not an instruction. Perhaps just a prophecy. I think the God of the old testament is the same as the one in the new, but I don't think he's instructed any Christians to go around killing people in his name. A lot of those were from Deuteronomy...historically, what were the Jews in the bible doing at that time? What was God having them do in general? Were they under attack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Knight Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 God doesn't force His divine Will on man, He gave us Free Will, you my friend, are taking those peices of scripture out of context, out of everyone you typed out read what comes before that and comes after that of each and every single one. and you'll get a better understanding what they actually mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didacus Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 The bible is a very harsh book and it has in its contents some words almost inconceavable to the modern day christian. This is an after effect of the liberation theology. People of my generation, and a bit prior, where constantly taught nad learned of a forgiving and unconditionally loving God, and the judgemental god who reserves the right of vengeance for example, was ignored in great part. so when people seek to learn more of the God of perfect love, they are often shocked by what is contained in the bible, and this in turn forces them to discover other aspects of God.. IE: god is love, but He is also Wisdom, He is also Truth, ect... Most that are shocked by the wordings contained in the bible are those who in my opinion have a 'partial' view of God, ignoring much of the other facets of the Father as they have been revealed. True, no one can possibly conceive God in His total being, but I am talking about 'revealed facets' of God here, those that cna be found in the bible. Once my son told me; God is love, nad he wouldn't punish me in this way! I told him God is love, true, but He is also wisdom, patient and slow to anger. Son: God gets angry? Me: oh ya, of course he does. (and I told him the story of Sodom and Gomora) The only way I can see my son asking me that question or trying to confront me the way he did, is that at school they teach a God of love, but the other facets are nearly completely ignored. so it comes to say that the quotes in the original post may seem crued, cruel and not of god at all. I would recommend researching each quote in turn, taking the time to learn the context, and each in turn to be discussed. What has been asked in the first post is almost like asking to discuss 10 subjects at the same time... back to you Bob... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cow of Shame Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 [quote name='White Knight' date='Oct 7 2005, 02:13 PM']God doesn't force His divine Will on man, He gave us Free Will, [right][snapback]749674[/snapback][/right] [/quote] He never said God forced people to do those things, that he commanded it to be done. The question was about God's nature, not man's free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Knight Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Even then, His ways do not make Him a Tyrant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 [url="http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=18683"]http://phorum.phatmass.com/index.php?showtopic=18683[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Knight Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 (edited) Read the chapters more carefully before quoting them, your taking them out of context. Edited October 7, 2005 by White Knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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