A question about the Hierarchy of the church

[infinitelord1]

What deems these cardinals and popes the right to hold a position of power in the church? What is there purpose? How can we proove that peter was the first "pope"? Where did these terms "pope", "cardinal", "bishop", "priest", "deacon" come from?

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Oct 1 2005, 06:03 PM']What deems these cardinals and popes the right to hold a position of power in the church? What is there purpose? How can we proove that peter was the first "pope"? Where did these terms "pope", "cardinal", "bishop", "priest", "deacon" come from?
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The Early Church Fathers on Peter as the first Pope:

[b]Tatian the Syrian[/b]
"Simon Cephas answered and said, ‘You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.’ Jesus answered and said unto him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah: flesh and blood has not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say unto thee also, that you are Cephas, and on this rock will I build my Church; and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it" (The Diatesseron 23 [A.D. 170]).

[b]Tertullian[/b]
"Was anything withheld from the knowledge of Peter, who is called ‘the rock on which the Church would be built’ [Matt. 16:18] with the power of ‘loosing and binding in heaven and on earth’ [Matt. 16:19]?" (Demurrer Against the Heretics 22 [A.D. 200]).

"[T]he Lord said to Peter, ‘On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. . . . What kind of man are you, subverting and changing what was the manifest intent of the Lord when he conferred this personally upon Peter? Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys" (Modesty 21:9–10 [A.D. 220]).


[b]The Letter of Clement to James[/b]
"Be it known to you, my lord, that Simon [Peter], who, for the sake of the true faith, and the most sure foundation of his doctrine, was set apart to be the foundation of the Church, and for this end was by Jesus himself, with his truthful mouth, named Peter" (Letter of Clement to James 2 [A.D. 221]).

[b]The Clementine Homilies[/b]
"[Simon Peter said to Simon Magus in Rome:] ‘For you now stand in direct opposition to me, who am a firm rock, the foundation of the Church’ [Matt. 16:18]" (Clementine Homilies 17:19 [A.D. 221]).

[b]Origen[/b]
"Look at [Peter], the great foundation of the Church, that most solid of rocks, upon whom Christ built the Church [Matt. 16:18]. And what does our Lord say to him? ‘Oh you of little faith,’ he says, ‘why do you doubt?’ [Matt. 14:31]" (Homilies on Exodus 5:4 [A.D. 248]).

[b]Cyprian of Carthage[/b]
"The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. . . . If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).

"There is one God and one Christ, and one Church, and one chair founded on Peter by the word of the Lord. It is not possible to set up another altar or for there to be another priesthood besides that one altar and that one priesthood. Whoever has gathered elsewhere is scattering" (Letters 43[40]:5 [A.D. 253]).

"There [John 6:68–69] speaks Peter, upon whom the Church would be built, teaching in the name of the Church and showing that even if a stubborn and proud multitude withdraws because it does not wish to obey, yet the Church does not withdraw from Christ. The people joined to the priest and the flock clinging to their shepherd are the Church. You ought to know, then, that the bishop is in the Church and the Church in the bishop, and if someone is not with the bishop, he is not in the Church. They vainly flatter themselves who creep up, not having peace with the priests of God, believing that they are
secretly [i.e., invisibly] in communion with certain individuals. For the Church, which is one and Catholic, is not split nor divided, but it is indeed united and joined by the cement of priests who adhere one to another" (ibid., 66[69]:8).

[b]Firmilian[/b]
"But what is his error . . . who does not remain on the foundation of the one Church which was founded upon the rock by Christ [Matt. 16:18], can be learned from this, which Christ said to Peter alone: ‘Whatever things you shall bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth, they shall be loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:19]" (collected in Cyprian’s Letters 74[75]:16 [A.D. 253]).

"[Pope] Stephen . . . boasts of the place of his episcopate, and contends that he holds the succession from Peter, on whom the foundations of the Church were laid [Matt. 16:18]. . . . [Pope] Stephen . . . announces that he holds by succession the throne of Peter" (ibid., 74[75]:17).

[infinitelord1]

nice fidei,

you are very educated my friend.......and you have certainly helped me out.

[infinitelord1]

I have one more question though..........how do we know that this church.......which peter was entrusted to.........is the catholic church?

[Fidei Defensor]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Oct 1 2005, 06:23 PM']I have one more question though..........how do we know that this church.......which peter was entrusted to.........is the catholic church?
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By comparing the Church today with the Church of the first centuries. When you do, you will see that they are the same Church, which believe the exact same thing. Also, the line of Popes which is unbroken through history also shows it.

[crusader1234]

All of these questions can be answered in either the apologetics board or the resources section of Phatmass.

ETA: [url="http://www.phatmass.com/directory/index.php/cat_id/3"]A Direct Link To The Phatmass Resource Section On This Topic[/url]

[curtins]

You can trace Pope Benedict all the way back to Pope St. Peter through Apostolic succession. the line is unbroken- thats where other churches cannot stake the claim to be the true church of Christ. The Bishops, Pope etc get their authority from Jesus through the Sacrament of Holy Orders.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Oct 1 2005, 07:23 PM']I have one more question though..........how do we know that this church.......which peter was entrusted to.........is the catholic church?
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First of all Jesus founded one church and put Peter in charge.
Second go read the letter of Clement when he is yelling at the Corinthians. He is firmly correctling them and expecting to be obeyed. This was around the year 97 AD, and St John was still alive and writing, but the Bishop of Rome did the correcting, not the Apostle. Everyone has their individual calling in the order of things.

[dspen2005]

[quote name='infinitelord1' date='Oct 1 2005, 07:23 PM']I have one more question though..........how do we know that this church.......which peter was entrusted to.........is the catholic church?
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read Chadwick's ( i think it's Henry Chadwick, not sure of the first name) book on Early Church History. It is an easy read, but a very good one. In it, is an overview of the Church in the days following the REsurrection of Christ. He outlines various controversies/hereises that arose. It also shows in it's explanation of the history of the Early Church the teachings that were promulgated in the early days are the same ones given to us in this our present day.... that was one thing that impressed me.....

[Brother Adam]

kindof interesting isn't it that at the council of Jeresalem they didn't go into lay committees and then have a democratic vote by the Christian community on if circumcision is or isn't required for new Christians. The matter was settled by Peter and the Apostles. If you are in a Church where the doctrine is decided upon by congregational vote, you're in the wrong church. If you are in a Church where doctrine is decided on by those Christ ordained and their successors you are in the right Church. (ps - that's the Catholic Church)

[popestpiusx]

In addition to all the true things folks have posted thus far, the Catholic Church is the only religion that possesses the four marks: Oneness, Holiness, Apostolicity, and Catholicity (universality).

[dspen2005]

monsignor and cardinal are honorific titles... the church could dispense with them, and we would be just as good as we are today....