Hmm

[Ziggamafu]

So yeah, i've always struggled with annullment being in Catholicism. It seems too easy. It's like, "you don't like the person you married? fallen in love with another person, eh? no prob! let's just see if that marriage was REALLY valid to begin with [::wink::wink::]!"

I've heard / read so many people asking question/answer forums or radio shows about this topic and the priest almost always helps them find a loophole that may have made the marriage invalid.

here's the implicit question:

if marriage is a grave matter, (because the vows taken are grave obligations) then marriage always deals with mortal sin and immortal righteousness. Ok. So if that's the case, anullment functions like discernment of mortal sin; did the person involved really understand what was taking place, know what the Church taught, and FREELY consent to / reject it anyway?

so here's an interesting observation. it seems we are far more ready to dismiss a marriage as "invalid" than we are to dismiss a grave sin as "venial" [i]even though both circumstances involve an evaluation of the same conditions - full knowledge and free consent!!![/i]

[phatcatholic]

was there a question in there somewhere?

[Ziggamafu]

As is demonstrated by the annulment process, isn't the consent of the will and the understanding of the grave matter more important than the grave matter itself when discerning mortal sin?

[Quietfire]

getting an annulment is not as easy as you may think. It could take years. That being said....
Marriage is not a "grave matter". It is a sacrament. Man and woman take a vow (sacrament) to be joined together as one.

As far as annulment.
What specifically do you want to know?

Let me give you an example of a marriage that would be a candidate(so to speak) for annulment.

A man and woman marry. Shortly after the vows, let us say 6 months, the woman leaves the man for another.
She tells her husband that she never loved him and only married him to please her family and give them the 'big, white, Catholic wedding". She then informs him that she had had a lover the entire time they courted, even after the wedding. She then left her husband to live with her lover.

Is this marriage valid?
No.
Why?

The man went to the alter with the intention of a life long vow. Vows are the most serious 'promises' that man can make, but that is another thread. The woman though, never had any intention of making this marriage for life. Her intention was simple fraud.
She never loved him, yet took a vow of love for life.
Since her intention was not love for life then her intention was invalid, since she lied at the alter. The marriage is invalid, since she never planned on making the marriage last. The marriage, in essence, never existed. That is an annulment.
Not a divorce. An annulment means that the marriage never existed because of certain conditions. She wanted a party, He wanted life long fidelity.
That is a reader's digest version. It isnt that simple really. Trust me on this.

Any questions?


Pax

Edited October 2, 2005 by Quietfire

[Ziggamafu]

hey now...the catechism defines both grave obligations and grave prohibitions; in both cases the matter is "grave", i.e. "serious".

i consider the vows i took with my wife to be very grave indeed.

many catholics are so focused on the "negative" grave matters (prohibitions) outlined in Church Teaching that they largely neglect or are unaware of the "positive" grave matters (obligations).

...but that's another discussion.

i actually am speaking of the negative, here. most catholics examine how grave a sin is (the objective act) to determine mortal sin, assigning the objective act (what we are able to judge and condemn) with more weight in that determination than the subjective disposition (full knowledge and understanding of Church Teaching, deliberation, totally free consent).

I give more weight to the knowledge and consent than to the grave matter in my discernment of mortal sin. For me, it is the only way to avoid legalism and unhealthy scrupulosity.

...I believe the loopholes the Church offers in the grave matter of the marriage Sacrament reveal an implicit agreement with my position. In other words, the very existence (and prevelance) of annulments suggests that the understood knowledge and the deliberate and free consent are more important in making such decisions as whether a person would or would not be in mortal sin for leaving his or her spouse.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Ziggamafu' date='Oct 1 2005, 07:31 PM']As is demonstrated by the annulment process, isn't the consent of the will and the understanding of the grave matter more important than the grave matter itself when discerning mortal sin?
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[/quote]
i'm not sure if we can say that any of the three is more important than the others. i don't think we can make a statement about mortal sin based on the annulment process.

[thessalonian]

I agree Phat. in response to the thread I have to say that there is reason for concern regarding liberal use of anullments on the one hand. On the other hand our society and it's lax attitude toward the sanctity of marriage and it's permanence does not assist the Church in instilling this great virtue in the hearts and minds of men. I will not place myself as the superior judge over the Church in the matter of anullments and will submit to the judgement of the proper authority rather than oppose it and find myself opposing God. The responsibility is theirs to ensure that it is carried out per the dictates of the Church and I have not opportunity to judge each individual case as they do. I pray for them that they do it well and do not cheapen the sacrament of marriage by it. There is good reason for many anullments in this day and age. Therefore I will not cause division in the Church by exalting my views in this matter to the point where they cause discord.

Blessings

Edited October 13, 2005 by thessalonian