VOTF

[dspen2005]

in light of what is going on here in philly, i wanted to see what the consensus was amongs pmers?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I don't know what it is...

[Aloysius]

they want to democratize the Church. that's all you really need to know. their organization will crumble like all others who have risen up against our timeless Church. there have been much more forminable threats than these "VOTF" losers.

[phatcatholic]

i know, what a freakin joke of an organization.....

[White Knight]

I haven't heard enough about it to make a accurate or apporiate opinion so I dunno.

[Socrates]

Why don't they be honest and call themselves "Voice of the Unfaithful"? I mean, what are they faithful to? Their own egos? Liberal ideology? Certainly not to the Catholic Faith!

[dspen2005]

that's the truth... i found online some sort of reactionary group to VOTF -- but I can't find them... maybe someone has heard of what I am talking about?

[Cam42]

From their website.....

[quote]Voice of the Faithful is a lay organization formed in January, 2002, in response to the sexual abuse crisis in the Catholic Church. The organization began as a "listening session" of 30 parishioners in the basement at St. John the Evangelist church in Wellesley, Massachusetts. Just a few months later, Voice of the Faithful has over 25,000 registered supporters throughout 40 U.S. states and 21 countries worldwide, as well as more than 150 Parish Voice affiliates. The organization's exponential growth has been fueled by the communication opportunities of the VOTF Web site and by the crying need for dialogue and change felt among mainstream Catholics across America and throughout the world. [/quote]

That is in response to who is VOTF.

[quote]Our mission is "to provide a prayerful voice, attentive to the Spirit, through which the Faithful can actively participate in the governance and guidance of the Catholic Church." [/quote]

That is response to what is the mission. That is also enough to know that they are NOT faithful.

[quote]Our goals are:

1.  To support victim/survivors of clergy sexual abuse

2.  To support priests of integrity

3.  To shape structural change within the Catholic Church [/quote]

#3 is a continuation of an unfaithful action within the Church. It is borderline schism. Schism is defined as:
[quote name='CCC 2089']....schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.[/quote]

While they are not actively in schism, so the reasoning for the term, "borderline."

[quote]The wise and eloquent documents of Vatican II provide a very clear mandate for the laity's right — and, indeed, responsibility — to become active in the guidance of the Church as "the people of God."

In addition, simple morality cries out for the laity to become involved, to right the grievous wrong that has afflicted our Church. The hierarchy that failed to protect our children cannot be trusted to continue exercising unchecked control over the persons, property, money and fate of our church. VOTF believes that baptized Catholics must, as a matter of conscience, assert our right and responsibility to participate in the decision-making processes of the whole Catholic Church.[/quote]

This is a misinterpretation of the documentation of Vatican Council II. It is clear from reading the [url="http://stjosef.at/council/"]documents of Vatican Council II[/url] that this organization is fundamentally flawed.

[Sinner]

votf....... gimme a break. I never noticed the Church doors locked. If they don't like the Church of today, why don't they go down the street to Fellowship?

[conservativecatholic]

dang it. I accidentally put good....my bad.

The Voice of the Faithful is simply a bottomless pit of ignorance.

Edited October 1, 2005 by conservativecatholic

[White Knight]

Man do I feel like I came out of a rock or something, I never heard of this organization, please clear up what there about or give me some sources so I can find out more about them. thanks.

[Cam42]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Oct 1 2005, 03:58 PM']Man do I feel like I came out of a rock or something, I never heard of this  organization, please clear up what there about or give me some sources so I can find out more about them. thanks.
[right][snapback]743107[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

[url="http://www.votf.org/"]Voice of the Faithful's[/url] website.....enter at your own risk. It is borderline schismatic. Good Luck and Godspeed.

[photosynthesis]

my grandma is a member of VOTF. She is always trying to get me to go to their meetings but she will NEVER succeed... ugh, i'd rather get a root canal or go to the New Jersey DMV than have to sit through a bunch of blithering idiots trying to "change the church." if they're so unhappy then why don't they just leave? I always tell my grandma that she'd make a really good episcopalian. It probably sounds horrible for me to say, but my grandma doesn't really have catholic beliefs so she might as well call herself something else.

[Cam42]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Oct 2 2005, 03:09 AM']my grandma is a member of VOTF.  She is always trying to get me to go to their meetings but she will NEVER succeed...  ugh, i'd rather get a root canal or go to the New Jersey DMV than have to sit through a bunch of blithering idiots trying to "change the church."    if they're so unhappy then why don't they just leave?  I always tell my grandma that she'd make a really good episcopalian.  It probably sounds horrible for me to say, but my grandma doesn't really have catholic beliefs so she might as well call herself something else.
[right][snapback]743517[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]

Well, that certainly is a way to look at things, however, I don't think that I would approach someone that way, in real life.

If she is a member of VOTF, then she is probably being mislead. I would take a systematic approach and show her how she is being dragged down the wrong path.

And then pray....it sounds like she has followed the wrong agenda.

[Jaime]

I think that the VOTF is a mixed bag of good intentions and arrogance. It was started because people felt that the Church wasn't responding properly to the scandals here in the US. They certainly weren't the only ones who felt that way. But the problem that we run into here in our country is that by being the only superpower in the world, we have a tendency to be arrogant and think we know best. The reality is that Catholics in the US make up a small percentage of the Church.

One of the things that is both beautiful and totally exasperating about the Church is that it has always, always, always responded to scandal in a methodical and thoughtful way. She has never been reactive and Holy Mother Church has always survived and thrived.

I think the key to the idea of "assenting your will" to the Church is being humble enough to have faith in the Church when we think we see an obvious and reactive answer. I believe that assenting on only the issues we agree with isn't really assenting. The true challenge is assenting when I don't understand. That's what the founders of the VOTF lost sight of.