Distinction in Lust

[White Knight]

Does anyone believe here you can look at a woman of if you are a woman a man and not lust after them? I see women as people who have hearts and minds and who look pretty, but I dont picture them graphicyly nude or having sex with them.


[b]Can a Guy say to a Woman that shes Hot looking without having sexual thoughts? I believe so, does anyone else agree or disagree?[/b]

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Sep 24 2005, 03:41 PM']Does anyone believe here you can look at a woman of if you are a woman a man and not lust after them? I see women as people who have hearts and minds and who look pretty, but I dont picture them graphicyly nude or having sex with them.
[b]Can a Guy say to a Woman that shes Hot looking without having sexual thoughts? I believe so, does anyone else agree or disagree?[/b]
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I think it depends on the meaning of the term "hot." Generally, it means something in our culture along the lines of "too attractive not to objectify"...I think that a man could say a woman is "hot" and not be lusting, but it just wouldn't be smart unless both the man and the woman knew that he wasn't lusting in it and that he was referring to her true beauty as a person.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Sep 24 2005, 02:29 PM']OK, let’s take a moment to define terms. In Matt. 5:28, Christ says, “Everyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”

So a really simple definition consistent with this verse would be that lust is adultery committed in the heart.
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That doesn't really define lust or adultery. Jesus was simply saying that adultery can be committed without a physical act, but He didn't say what lust actually was.

Therefore, one could still argue that lust can take various forms, one of which is a sense of power. A sense of power, for instance, is obtained when a man rapes a woman. Men who objectify women treat them like objects because they wish to exert some level of power...you reduce a woman to an object and you use her like you would use anything else you have power over. Likewise, women seem to tend toward (recognize that I'm speaking in generalities, not specifics) objectify men in such a way, in a sexual way, by manipulating emotion for the sake of keeping the "right guy" with them and under their control. It therefore seems that men tend to be oriented toward treating women as the sum of a certain amount of body parts, while women tend to be oriented toward keeping men, whole men (as opposed to parts), like putty in their hands so that they can have "the right guy" and win out in the jealousy wars that seem to me to be so common among high school girls. :

Realize, of course, that guys have their trophy girlfriends, also...and women do lust after certain parts of men...but these seem to be secondary ways for lust to be expressed, relative to gender.

[Socrates]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Sep 24 2005, 02:41 PM']Does anyone believe here you can look at a woman of if you are a woman a man and not lust after them? I see women as people who have hearts and minds and who look pretty, but I dont picture them graphicyly nude or having sex with them. [/quote]
NO, absolutely not!! Everybody is morally required to put on blindfolds whenever they are around the opposite sex!!

[quote][b]Can a Guy say to a Woman that shes Hot looking without having sexual thoughts? I believe so, does anyone else agree or disagree?[/b]
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A guy can say whatever he wants without having sexual thoughts, obviously.
However, "hot" in this sense usually means "sexually attractive."
So, unless the young woman is already your girlfriend, such a statement might tend to provoke a slap or a drink tossed in your face.

There are more tactful and gracious ways of telling a young lady she's attractive.
Just straight out telling a woman she's "hot" does not become a gentleman, and would give the impression you're just out looking for cheap sexual thrills.

Edited September 24, 2005 by Socrates

[Socrates]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Sep 24 2005, 04:07 PM']That doesn't really define lust or adultery.  Jesus was simply saying that adultery can be committed without a physical act, but He didn't say what lust actually was.

Therefore, one could still argue that lust can take various forms, one of which is a sense of power.  A sense of power, for instance, is obtained when a man rapes a woman.  Men who objectify women treat them like objects because they wish to exert some level of power...you reduce a woman to an object and you use her like you would use anything else you have power over.  Likewise, women seem to tend toward (recognize that I'm speaking in generalities, not specifics) objectify men in such a way, in a sexual way, by manipulating emotion for the sake of keeping the "right guy" with them and under their control.  It therefore seems that men tend to be oriented toward treating women as the sum of a certain amount of body parts, while women tend to be oriented toward keeping men, whole men (as opposed to parts), like putty in their hands so that they can have "the right guy" and win out in the jealousy wars that seem to me to be so common among high school girls. :

Realize, of course, that guys have their trophy girlfriends, also...and women do lust after certain parts of men...but these seem to be secondary ways for lust to be expressed, relative to gender.
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This is really all just a question of definitions. I still maintain that strictly speaking, lust refers to inordinate or sinful sexual desire. Of course, the different sins and vices are related, though.
If one's own sexual gratification is the main basis of an act or relationship, this can be said to be lustful. And both men and women can be lustful. The idea that women are non-sexual is a Victorian myth.

Using one for greed or social advancement is likewise sinful, but not primarily lust.
People can "use" each other or assert dominance over one another in ways completely unrelated to sex (friendships, partnerships, abusing busines relations, etc.) But I guess, you have a point, in how this is commonly analogously compared with rape. "Screwing people over," "buddyf***ing" and a host of other similar vulgar expressions come to mind.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Raphael' date='Sep 24 2005, 04:07 PM']That doesn't really define lust or adultery.  Jesus was simply saying that adultery can be committed without a physical act, but He didn't say what lust actually was.
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Right ... which was why I went on to provide the definitions of lust JP2 provides in TOTB. Did you actually read the rest of my post, or just stop after the first couple of lines?

[quote name='Raphael' date='Sep 24 2005, 04:07 PM']Therefore, one could still argue that lust can take various forms, one of which is a sense of power.  A sense of power, for instance, is obtained when a man rapes a woman.  Men who objectify women treat them like objects because they wish to exert some level of power...you reduce a woman to an object and you use her like you would use anything else you have power over.  Likewise, women seem to tend toward (recognize that I'm speaking in generalities, not specifics) objectify men in such a way, in a sexual way, by manipulating emotion for the sake of keeping the "right guy" with them and under their control.  It therefore seems that men tend to be oriented toward treating women as the sum of a certain amount of body parts, while women tend to be oriented toward keeping men, whole men (as opposed to parts), like putty in their hands so that they can have "the right guy" and win out in the jealousy wars that seem to me to be so common among high school girls. :

Realize, of course, that guys have their trophy girlfriends, also...and women do lust after certain parts of men...but these seem to be secondary ways for lust to be expressed, relative to gender.
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I'd agree, as I've stated on several other occasions, that lust can take different forms. However, the reality of the situation is different for women than you've been describing, at least from my own perspective and experience and that of women with whom I've had similar discussions. Most people haven't really thought through why they lust, though, so it's not a question that often comes up in conversation. Perhaps I'll bring it up to my accountability group this week and see what they all say.

[Old_Joe]

[quote name='White Knight' date='Sep 24 2005, 02:41 PM']Does anyone believe here you can look at a woman of if you are a woman a man and not lust after them? I see women as people who have hearts and minds and who look pretty, but I dont picture them graphicyly nude or having sex with them.
[b]Can a Guy say to a Woman that shes Hot looking without having sexual thoughts? I believe so, does anyone else agree or disagree?[/b]
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[/quote]

Do you have to say Hot? Can you something else such, pretty, cute, gorgeous, beautiful, etc? Not only does telling a girl that she's hot or sexy have the sexual connotation, but it's also very rude.

On a side note, Can you look a piece of artwork of a nude female and still not Lust?

Edited September 25, 2005 by Old_Joe

[infinitelord1]

I always thought that when jesus referred to lust as being a sin it was in reference to those who lust for those who are married.