Fidei Defensor Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 [quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Sep 20 2005, 06:12 PM']What makes you think all the men around them would be straight? ... It doesn't seem as though they would be the case. Yes, masturbation is sinful, but homosexual acts are worse because they involve the detriment of another's soul in addition to one's own. [right][snapback]731761[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yes, i see your point. But my point is, there is a difference between being tempted, and actually doing something. We cannot forget the grace of God. Plus, the reason these men are there is to become priests and further their holiness, not to push some agenda or to seek out partners to "gratify" themselves with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 [quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 20 2005, 07:12 PM']It was directed at no one on this board! It is directed at those who make sexual propositions to other men. [right][snapback]731762[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well, as long as it wasn't about anyone we know . . . . Honestly, Socrates, I don't think anyone is trying to kick you around the board for fun. You made a comment that was, in some people's opinion, out of line and uncharitable and got called on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Thumper' date='Sep 20 2005, 07:08 PM']By that reasoning you seem to be indicating that homosexuals cannot be emotionally healthy. Is that what you intend to say? [right][snapback]731746[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Homosexuals are capable of being emotionally healthy as their dis-ordered state allows them to be. All of us have various burdens, some are impediments to religious life , some are not. Edited September 20, 2005 by cmotherofpirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Sep 20 2005, 07:15 PM']Yes, i see your point. But my point is, there is a difference between being tempted, and actually doing something. We cannot forget the grace of God. Plus, the reason these men are there is to become priests and further their holiness, not to push some agenda or to seek out partners to "gratify" themselves with. [right][snapback]731772[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Very true.... my concern still lies with the fact that the emotions they experience are gravely disordered in regards to sexuality. (I know masturbation is also disordered, but it is a result of concupiscence and ALL experience the effects of concupiscence). But without a proper understanding (a TRUE understanding and grasp of sexuality) I'm not sure a homosexual (even if non-practicing) priest would be able to properly direct and assist his parishoners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted September 20, 2005 Author Share Posted September 20, 2005 I find it interesting that some on here who are typically papal positivists are now quite upset about this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 [quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Sep 20 2005, 06:19 PM']Very true.... my concern still lies with the fact that the emotions they experience are gravely disordered in regards to sexuality. (I know masturbation is also disordered, but it is a result of concupiscence and ALL experience the effects of concupiscence). But without a proper understanding (a TRUE understanding and grasp of sexuality) I'm not sure a homosexual (even if non-practicing) priest would be able to properly direct and assist his parishoners. [right][snapback]731780[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Yes, you are right. Again, i think we need to examine the whole person in reguards to how they behave, rather than just base it on their orientation. You cannot assume that someone will do something either way just on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Sep 20 2005, 07:18 PM']Homosexuals are capable of being emotionally healthy as their dis-ordered state allows them to be. [right][snapback]731778[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Alright, then how is that quantitatively different from what my own fallen state allows me to be? In other words, what measurement are we using? And is it just to apply it to an entire group of people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Sep 20 2005, 07:22 PM']Yes, you are right. Again, i think we need to examine the whole person in reguards to how they behave, rather than just base it on their orientation. You cannot assume that someone will do something either way just on that. [right][snapback]731784[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Even in looking at the whole person, the fact that we already know they have a disordered sexual inclination (that stretches beyond concupiscence) ought to speak volumes. Adding to temptation is never a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 [quote name='cmotherofpirl' date='Sep 20 2005, 07:18 PM']Homosexuals are capable of being emotionally healthy as their dis-ordered state allows them to be. All of us have various burdens, some are impediments to religious life , some are not. [right][snapback]731778[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Sorry, I responded before I read your edit, and in that case still do not understand why homosexuality (given emotional health) is an impediments to the religious life. What is it about that particular disorder that interferes with the vocation to the priesthood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 [quote name='Thumper' date='Sep 20 2005, 07:23 PM']Alright, then how is that quantitatively different from what my own fallen state allows me to be? In other words, what measurement are we using? And is it just to apply it to an entire group of people? [right][snapback]731785[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Thumper I had to edit my post to finish it. I had a attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtins Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 [quote name='Pio Nono' date='Sep 19 2005, 08:39 PM']JMJ 9/19 - St. Januarius I personally take offense at this. That's all I'll say about it. And yes, as a part of the board examinations to enter a seminary, a man is asked whether he is a homosexual - at least that's the process here at Mundelein. What they do with the information, I don't know. But, if you think about it...if a guy wants to get ordained bad enough, he just [i]might[/i] be willing to lie about his sexual orientation. Just a thought. [right][snapback]730476[/snapback][/right] [/quote] what other reason would there be for really wanting to be ordained other than to serve Christ in that manner? And if thats the reason then you would be a great follower and believer of Christ- and so you probably wouldnt lie on a test like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 [quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Sep 20 2005, 06:24 PM']Even in looking at the whole person, the fact that we already know they have a disordered sexual inclination (that stretches beyond concupiscence) ought to speak volumes. Adding to temptation is never a good thing. [right][snapback]731788[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Thats not necesarily fair though. Someone can have SSA, yet be entirely normal when compared to any regular straight male. The only issue here is that it adds extra temptation, which is a valid argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 Glad you survived the cat attack! They can be vicious . . . and yet, so cute. Nice kitty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fides_et_Ratio Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 [quote name='fidei defensor' date='Sep 20 2005, 07:29 PM']Thats not necesarily fair though. Someone can have SSA, yet be entirely normal when compared to any regular straight male. The only issue here is that it adds extra temptation, which is a valid argument. [right][snapback]731798[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Perhaps, though in addition to valid I would also suggest very serious. Temptation is not something to be taken lightly. And that is my main concern. It does not seem a very intelligent, nor pastoral move to increase the temptation to sin for a man for any reason, however pious his intentions may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted September 20, 2005 Share Posted September 20, 2005 [quote name='Fides_et_Ratio' date='Sep 20 2005, 06:30 PM']Perhaps, though in addition to valid I would also suggest very serious. Temptation is not something to be taken lightly. And that is my main concern. It does not seem a very intelligent, nor pastoral move to increase the temptation to sin for a man for any reason, however pious his intentions may be. [right][snapback]731804[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Again, a valid arguement. But, reguardless of the kind of temptation, it is just a temptation. Satan cannot make you do anything. You dont have to participate in it. We must remember that we can draw our strength from Christ. But, yes, i again see your point. But, do you think that someone can overcome the temptation, over time with prayer, and be unaffected by it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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