Pope approves barring gay seminarians

[Era Might]

[quote]Some have emphasized the need for "manly recreation" in seminaries - preferrably something where the pansies can get beat to a pulp! [/quote]

Ok, let's calm down on the rhetoric.

[quote][Homosexual persons] must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.

--CCC #2358[/quote]

[dspen2005]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Sep 19 2005, 03:08 PM']a few of my friends have gone to seminary, and I got the impression that their evaluations were quite thorough...
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for me i had to have both a psychological evaluation as well as a psychiatric evaluation, which included interviews, as well as psych tests -- MMPI, Meyers-Briggs, and 2 or 3 others....

[dspen2005]

[quote name='Joey1976' date='Sep 19 2005, 10:20 PM']I knew a Priest who said that went he went into the seminary a lot of gay seminarians would hit on him and he left but ended up going back and becoming a Priest. But he said he couldn't rat on them but now i think they are allowing seminarians to tell about if they see gay tendancies but they will remain anonymous if they tell on someone.  The Church is reforming and that is good.  There is hope. Praise God that we belong to Jesus' Church.
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my parish priest back home told me stories of when he was at the seminary in baltimore -- it was known as the 'pink palace' because of the open homosexual activity that was going on while it was seemingly known by the rectors (so I have been told)..... historically it has happened... so i think this document from the Holy See is a much needed definition on the role Catholic moral teaching in the seminaries -- although, it is a sad commentary to see that such a document is required....

[dspen2005]

i join the others in asking, though... the efficacy of this document -- at least in the US among most American seminaries. some will take it to heart, but will all???? if the colleges haven't heeded Ex Corde Ecclesia -- what example have the seminaries to follow?

Edited September 20, 2005 by dspen2005

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='argent_paladin' date='Sep 19 2005, 07:05 PM']Unfortunately, psych tests have been used to keep orthodox seminarians out. It is quite easy to do since the vast majority of psychologists think that voluntary celibacy is a symptom of mental illness, that orthodoxy is a sign of rigidity and that obedience is a sign of immaturity. Therefore, liberal seminaries can say that they are screening out the unfit, without saying that they have a bias. Very sad. It is in fact hard to find a solid, faithful psychologist who agrees with the Church on all important matters.
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Well, but the Archdiocese of Omaha did the screening in my case, not the seminary.

It was good screening.

[dspen2005]

The religious order paid 2 very of doctors -- both are daily communicants, faithful Catholics -- so I didn't face the common secular, atheistic psychological approach as many do, unfortunately.

[dspen2005]

The religious order paid 2 very of doctors -- both are daily communicants, faithful Catholics -- so I didn't face the common secular, atheistic psychological approach as many do, unfortunately.

[MC Just]

the attitude of some people is just unbelievable. Our church in Usa gets rocked, mocked and desicrated by scandals brought by homo priests and im hearing people talk about "tolerance"towards them.

You have got to be kidding me. When you find the root of a problem you dont say"lets just keep it here and see if it gets better, you get rid of it. Sometimes you have to just DO IT.

You can't keep letting it dwell because in many cases it just gets worse and this is a case where i has gotten worse. Sad part is, this "tolerance attitude" is obviously liberal.

When will we ever learn from our mistakes.

[Era Might]

Addressing the homosexual sub-culture in Seminaries does not require foaming belligerence.

"Pansies" need to get "beat to the pulp"? This really happens. Homosexual persons are beaten down and murdered. It's nothing to joke about.

The last thing we need as a result of this document is belligerence toward homosexual persons. We must be all the more firm, but compassionate, because it is not going to be understood.

There are enough crazy Christians who hold "fagg**" signs any chance they get. We need to disavow such tactics, and offer a truly Christian response, one which does not compromise the truth, but recognizes that truth without compassion and charity is dead.

Edited September 20, 2005 by Era Might

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
9/19 - St. Januarius
[quote name='MC Just' date='Sep 19 2005, 10:27 PM']the attitude of some people is just unbelievable. Our church in Usa gets rocked, mocked and desicrated by scandals brought by homo priests and im hearing people talk about "tolerance"towards them.

You have got to be kidding me. When you find the root of a problem you dont say"lets just keep it here and see if it gets better, you get rid of it. Sometimes you have to just DO IT.

You can't keep letting it dwell because in many cases it just gets worse and this is a case where i has gotten worse.  Sad part is, this "tolerance attitude" is obviously liberal.   

When will we ever learn from our mistakes.
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Kicking homosexuals out is not getting at the root of the problem. Look at the numbers - pederasty and homosexuality do not go hand in hand. There's a general principle that we can run by which says that if it's an easy target, it might be the wrong one. We can nip this in the bud by kicking out the homosexuals, but it's going to have two major effects:

(1) Any homosexual presence in seminaries will not be deleted - it will be pushed underground. And that's how this whole &^%# thing got started to begin with!

(2) The root of the problem will remain full and alive. I don't know what that root is, but it does not seem to be homosexuality. I don't agree with an attitude of "tolerance" when it comes to homosexual men participating in a gay subculture. But it's a little disconcerting when getting homosexuals out of seminary is seen as merciful, since putting them with all those men can't be good for their psyches. I'm sorry, but have you been to a youth group meeting ever? And does ice run through your veins? The vast majority of people that priests work with are women, so the argument holds no water in my mind. I am also not convinced by arguments that say "priests marry the Church" - that's a (somewhat modern) Western pietism and not a universal theological belief.

If you're going to kick homosexuals out of the seminary (or at least prevent them from joining), I need to see a good argument to be convinced. I have yet to see an argument.

[cappie]

[quote name='Era Might' date='Sep 20 2005, 01:34 PM']Addressing the homosexual sub-culture in Seminaries does not require foaming belligerence.

"Pansies" need to get "beat to the pulp"? This really happens. Homosexual persons are beaten down and murdered. It's nothing to joke about.

The last thing we need as a result of this document is belligerence toward homosexual persons. We must be all the more firm, but compassionate, because it is not going to be understood.

There are enough crazy Christians who hold "fagg**" signs any chance they get. We need to disavow such tactics, and offer a truly Christian response, one which does not compromise the truth, but recognizes that truth without compassion and charity is dead.
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I have read this thread with interest and was ambivalent in getting involved as this seems to be predominately an "american" problem as I am not aware of any such problems on such a scale as seems in the USA.
However I have become disturbed by the tone of some of the posts and I support Era Might.

Of last Sunday's gospel I said:

Jonah sat on the brow overlooking Nineveh and showed his displeasure when God spared the city. The prodigal son’s older brother thought his father a fool and refused to share his joy at the return of his wayward sibling. The Pharisee at prayer thanked God that he was better than the rest, especially the sinful publican.

But God doesn’t see matters in the same way that we do. God thinks of justice in terms of people’s dignity and their right to a decent life.

In other words, God's perspective is that of the owner, who gave some of the laborers more than they earned. God’s justice demands that the people who came late had the same right to a decent life as those who had worked all day and hence all must be treated equally. The fact is that God’s presence, God’s grace, God’s way of acting is a great equalizer that disregards presumed privileges and surprises us by raising up those we think unworthy. Jesus, like the vineyard owner, continually went out searching for those who seemed to be lost. He understood the value of all people regardless of what the community thought of them. He gave all people equal value.

I don't disagree with the Holy See's reported position, although as of yet I have not read the document, but I do think we should not undervalue good and generous people's contribution. Era's use of the word "belligerence" is timely

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 19 2005, 09:29 PM']Some have emphasized the need for "manly recreation" in seminaries - preferrably something where the pansies can get beat to a pulp!
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Believe it or not, in one of the alumni newsletters I got for my HS seminary, I found out that at one time all had to learn wrestling because they didn't want "passive" priests!

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v699/keighters/b4bad3ed.jpg[/img]

But I think the problem is more of a loss of a sense of sin, not who can beat whom up.

[StatingTheObvious]

Come on. Use some common sense. No body knows for sure what anybody will do for certain in the future, but we can anylize personality traits and predict likelyhood.

If you cant control your attractions to men, women, boys, or girls, have an aversion to uncomfortable truth, are offended easily, have an ego that's easily wounded, you've got proclivity issues. Don't become a priest, preacher, teacher, youth counselor, or a spouse. I don't want some psycho-red-neck who hates Dema-crooks driving my tour bus in D.C. He may never have run anyone before, but then again, he never had the opportunity to drive a 5 ton bus around the State Capitol.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Pio Nono' date='Sep 20 2005, 12:00 AM']If you're going to kick homosexuals out of the seminary (or at least prevent them from joining), I need to see a good argument to be convinced.  I have yet to see an argument.
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Its very simple - homosexuality is a dis-ordered inclination and should not be present in a priest.

[zabbazooey]

I agree.