should these woman be declared martyrs?

[White Knight]

A Simple Yes.

[CatholicBoy]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 20 2005, 06:37 PM']
A martyr (in the formal sense) is one who is killed specifically because of his Christian Faith.
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Exactly.

[Cow of Shame]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 19 2005, 06:51 PM'][snip]
(I think some pro-lifers tend to be too loose with their terms of "martyrdom" wanting anyone who dies because of abortion or the culture of death to be declared a martyr.  (Terry Schiavo, aborted babies, etc.))
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So basically, it's the pro-life equivalent of using the word Vietnam, Nazi, Hitler, or terrorist...you throw it around for the shock/incense value.

Edited September 25, 2005 by Cow of Shame

[crusader1234]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 20 2005, 05:37 PM']Dying doing what is God's will and dying for the Faith are not necessarily identical.  (Dying doing what is right or "God's will" is virtuous and heroic, but not all virtuous and heroic acts are martyrdom.)

For instance, if a man died fighting to protect the lives of his children, this would be a heroic act, but he would not be a martyr. 

A martyr (in the formal sense) is one who is killed specifically because of his Christian Faith.
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Really good way of putting it.

[Didacus]

After reflecting, I think I see your point Socrates.

In the bible Jesus Himself said, and this is my own translation from French;

"He who loves his son or daugter more than I is unfit to enter the kingdom of heaven."

so it is truly by the love of God nad by one's faith that one should be martyred, not by love of a child which is, starge as it might be to say, not as important a love than the love of God.

Howver, one should not diminish the importance and link to God's love inside children. To give your life for your child is the Lord's work and all good parents love their children more than themselves.

[homeschoolmom]

Can I just ask what is the benefit in having the label "martyr" ?

If I were murdered at the hands of God-hating aliens who told me to renounce my faith or die, I guess that would make me a martyr. But so what? Would having the label after my name change my standing before the Lord? No.

[Nathan]

I really don't think women who die during childbirth -- even if they willfully choose to go through with the birth knowing full-well that they may die in the process -- should or could be declared martyrs.

Should they be declared saints? I'm open to that.

[Didacus]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 26 2005, 08:05 AM']Can I just ask what is the benefit in having the label "martyr" ?

If I were murdered at the hands of God-hating aliens who told me to renounce my faith or die, I guess that would make me a martyr. But so what? Would having the label after my name change my standing before the Lord? No.
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HSMom;

It does not change the standing before the Lord, the point is having the church honour them so that people can see the example they have set as being important and follow it.

[homeschoolmom]

But I can (and do) admire a woman who delivers her baby at great paril to herself without her needing a label...

[Didacus]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 26 2005, 08:40 AM']But I can (and do) admire a woman who delivers her baby at great paril to herself without her needing a label...
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I would hold great respect to any woman with or without a 'label', and to tell you the truth, it would make no difference to my opinion of them either way. But I think that it is important to underline those amongst us who go to great lengths to live their lives morally. Such recognition can have an impact on society.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='737706' date='Sep 26 2005, 06:40 AM']But I can (and do) admire a woman who delivers her baby at great [b][color="#FF0000"][s]paril[/s][/color][/b] to herself without her needing a label...[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
peril.

[Majella]

I think as it is so easy nowadays for a woman with a risky pregnancy to have an abortion, a woman who continues such a pregnancy, is basically choosing her death.
It is a very heroic act, and I think you could call her a martyr, as she dies for her belief.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1706047' date='Nov 20 2008, 05:25 PM']+J.M.J.+
peril. [/quote]

Okay... first... who is bumping all the old threads... RED???

Second... I read your reply and the quote and thought... "Okay, who misspelled 'peril'?"

[Lil Red]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1706073' date='Nov 20 2008, 04:18 PM']Okay... first... who is bumping all the old threads... RED???

Second... I read your reply and the quote and thought... "Okay, who misspelled 'peril'?"

[/quote]
+J.M.J.+
First, Didacus started it

and second

[Didacus]

I want a lawyer!