philothea Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Sep 19 2005, 08:29 PM']You are mistaking pure conjecture for observable physical science, as you yourself just admitted, no one even accepts Darwin anymore. And you can't just take a theory of origins by athiests and slap a "God Did It" sticker on it to make everything alright. Nature is beautiful, and life is amazing, but the Bible did infallibly tell us that out of the dust God created man. Just as you can't put God under a microscope, you can't explain away our creation as a theory from the pens of those who dispised and hated God. [right][snapback]730523[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I haven't advocated any theory other than that of common origin, a very old earth, that different life forms lived in different eras, and that mankind is relatively modern. I'm not basing anything on "pure conjecture." [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Sep 19 2005, 08:29 PM']"Christianity has fought, still fights, and will fight science to the desperate end over evolution, because evolution destroys utterly and finally the very reason Jesus' earthly life was supposedly made necessary. Destroy Adam and Eve and the original sin, and in the rubble you will find the sorry remain of the son of God. If Jesus was not the redeemer who died for our sins, and this is what evolution means, then Christianity is nothing."-- Richard Bozarth No one is asking you to ignore patterns, but consider first what has been revealed by Divine Revelation. Remember, if Adam and Eve never existed because creation did not happen like that, then the entire geneology of Christ is shot, and thus either does Christ exist. And if Adam and Eve are real historical persons (which the Church tells us is a matter that we must believe, along with that there were no other humans when they existed), then it only makes sense that the rest of the story is true too. [right][snapback]730523[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Ah ha. I think I understand why we have reached different conclusions. I don't [i]consider first[/i] Divine Revelation, because I don't know (initially) what Divine Revelation is. I first look at observable reality, and through that attempt to discern the truth. I have concluded that the Catholic Church has the truth, but only after taking what I know and see and can touch, and testing how it corresponds with what the Church teaches. I see no contradiction at between the teachings of the Church and the world around me. I don't see evidence of an absolutely literal creation myth, though. If the Church had required that, I could not be Catholic. FWIW, science [i]has[/i] discovered that we had one common ancestor, "Eve". (Male ancestry is not yet possible to determine.) I look forward to every scientific advance as a small insight into the workings of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hierochloe Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 If this is going to turn into another debate on evo, maybe we should move it to the debate room? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 (edited) [quote name='hierochloe' date='Sep 21 2005, 12:04 AM']If this is going to turn into another debate on evo, maybe we should move it to the debate room? [right][snapback]732350[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Probably a good idea. I'll just nip off and report myself. Edited September 21, 2005 by philothea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Well...I'm not going to debate it. I don't see any point. I've debated it for years and it's always gone around in circles. I've even debated the 'science only' parts of why belief in evolution is non-sense, but it always comes down to technical jargon and people just get themselves confused. I find it tragic that you would abandon your faith over something as trivial as the theory of evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Sep 21 2005, 11:29 AM']Well...I'm not going to debate it. I don't see any point. I've debated it for years and it's always gone around in circles. I've even debated the 'science only' parts of why belief in evolution is non-sense, but it always comes down to technical jargon and people just get themselves confused. I find it tragic that you would abandon your faith over something as trivial as the theory of evolution. [right][snapback]732582[/snapback][/right] [/quote] As a teenager I left the church when erroneously told I had to take the 6 day creation story literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 And there are people who refuse to join because evolution is pushed as hard as it is. What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hierochloe Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 It is unfortunate indeed when it would seem this issue is not one on which your salvation is contingent. If you can agree that God did it, and no other, then you've covered your bases as it were. The rest is trivial compared to the important articles of faith. Yeah, I know - that could be considered a heretical statement by some. I still think it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hierochloe Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 [quote name='philothea' date='Sep 21 2005, 12:21 AM']Probably a good idea. I'll just nip off and report myself. [right][snapback]732356[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Lol, what's that all about? Did you get chapped by one of the mods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philothea Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 [quote name='hierochloe' date='Sep 21 2005, 11:51 AM']Lol, what's that all about? Did you get chapped by one of the mods? [right][snapback]732674[/snapback][/right] [/quote] No, I just figured the thread should be moved, and it's easier to hit the report button and catch the next-available-mod than to try to guess who to PM. (Actually, I did PM Kilroy at first, but she couldn't move it.) I certainly didn't want to report someone else, so I figured I'd report myself. I hope it doesn't go on my permanent record. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 [quote name='hierochloe' date='Sep 21 2005, 12:50 PM']It is unfortunate indeed when it would seem this issue is not one on which your salvation is contingent. If you can agree that God did it, and no other, then you've covered your bases as it were. The rest is trivial compared to the important articles of faith. Yeah, I know - that could be considered a heretical statement by some. I still think it's true. [right][snapback]732673[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Well sortof. Not only do you have to believe "God did it" even if you believe in evolution, the Church states that you have to believe Adam and Eve are our first parents, real, historical people, and that they were the only human beings when they lived and before they had children. You also have to believe that they were living in perfect communion with God here on earth, and then fell out of communion through sin causing the doctrine of original sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hierochloe Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Yes, and because I'm Catholic, I do my best to believe each one of those things (and it's not that hard really). Still, I think the idea of original sin holds water without such a literal interpretation. So one can still come to a (somewhat?) true understanding of what Jesus did for us and why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavenseeker Posted September 21, 2005 Author Share Posted September 21, 2005 who moved this here and why? not that i mind but it would have been nice to let me know you were moving my thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Someone asked it to be moved to the debate board becuase it was turning debatish and so it was. [ read previous posts] An arrow was left for you to follllllllow here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavenseeker Posted September 22, 2005 Author Share Posted September 22, 2005 yeah thats how i re-found it. i wasnt expecting it to get this way though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hierochloe Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 I apologize for that. I was the one who suggested it and really it wasn't necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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