imposing moral in society

[dairygirl4u2c]

Your thought puhlease.

Edited September 18, 2005 by dairygirl4u2c

[Guest JeffCR07]

Though I hate to appear nit-picky, I have to say that I can't answer the question until I get a clarification on what is meant by "fair" - it is a very relative word. "Fair" in the eyes of whom? God? The State? Me personally?

If you mean "fair" in the eyes of God, then no, because what is "fair" in God's eyes is what is perfectly Just, and only faithful, sacramental, monogomous marriage is pefectly just in the eyes of God.

If you mean "fair" in the eyes of the State, then sure it would be "fair," since a thing is "fair" in the eyes of the state as long as that thing has not done anything unlawfull. So, assuming the mormon-majority went about this change lawfully, the State would see it as "fair."

If you mean "fair" for me personally, then no, because I know what is fair in God's eyes, and I conform my will to His Will. Thus, the legal recognition of an unjust institution would be "unfair" in my eyes.

Whatever clarification you can give would be greatly appreciated.

In Christ,

Jeff

[Kilroy the Ninja]

Exactly. Fair to who?

[Brother Adam]

Mormons are permitted (obviously) to have only one wife, so this question is bunk anyway.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]Mormons are permitted (obviously) to have only one wife, so this question is bunk anyway. [/quote]
Aren't they the polygomists? Or ya mean they can only have one wife but can have multiple partners or? Either way, don't look at it from whether or not they can.. look at my point hypothetically speaking.

about fairness..
I actually had in my original post that you could begin by defining fair. Then I took it out because I assumed that was a given that you'd explain.

I guess I shouldn't leave polls like this open to so much interpretation if I want them to be accurate.. oh well.

Anyway, it seems to me that fair is fair. If you as Catholics can do that, then they as Mormons should be able to. You might say that's the eyes of the state. But it seems to me that in God's eye's it'd also seem that way. I don't understand why good has to be implemented in the law in order to be fair. If good always has to be implemented then it's not fair to evil. Maybe God doesn't want things to be fair for evil, that's one thing and sure I can see that in a way (though I don't agree with it). But fair is fair. Both sides must have equal opportunities, if one doesn't, then it's not fair. God doesn't artificially dichotomize fairnes between the state and Himself by changing the actual definition of fair into His form where it means only doing what God wants. (hmm) God might say it's fair that they did that, but it's not right.

Sort of what I mean...
When someone doesn't do God's will but does evil, it seems to me that evil played its role fair in God's eyes as they had a choice. Would you say this was fair?

I can sort of see some ways for argumentation with some ambiguity in "equal opportunities"... hmm anyone slick wanna try or am I gonna hafta figure this out myself?
I didn't make myself too clear, and I'm not sure if my analogy works.. but yea..

EDIT: so since we have this established that it's fair in the state, I guess my question should have said, in the eyes of God. If any mods wanna add that, that'd be super.

Edited September 18, 2005 by dairygirl4u2c

[Thy Geekdom Come]

If we mean universally fair, no. Natural law itself provides the case against polygamy.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Sep 18 2005, 06:50 PM']Aren't they the polygomists?
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No, he means one wife. There's a radical group that is excommunicated from the LDS for advocating polygamy, but polygamy was dropped from the religion when Utah was seeking statehood and the US Congress said, "not if you hold on to that polygamy thing..."

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]If you mean "fair" in the eyes of God, then no, because what is "fair" in God's eyes is what is perfectly Just, and only faithful, sacramental, monogomous marriage is pefectly just in the eyes of God.[/quote]
Fair and just are two different things, remember...........
can you explain more here, especially in refutation to my last reply?

[quote]universally fair[/quote]
Can you explain that? or how natural law ties into that if that's your intention. especially in refutation to my last reply.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' date='Sep 18 2005, 07:57 PM']Fair and just are two different things, remember...........
can you explain more here, especially in refutation to my last reply?
Can you explain that? or how natural law ties into that if that's your intention. especially in refutation to my last reply.
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Universally fair would mean fair in the absolute sense...basically, fair as God sees it.

[p-hawk]

Human beings ain't designed for it, so no, that's an unfair burden to place on human beings.

[track2004]

Just to be a devil's advocate...

Actually polygamous marraige worked better throughout history. Women died in childbirth and for jsut about everything else too. So instead of trying to get another women to raise his kids the guys would just marry like five of them so if one died the other four could still get by.

[dspen2005]

the quesstion is moot----whatever the Church tells us, that is what we believe. PERIOD!!

[Socrates]

[quote name='dspen2005' date='Sep 18 2005, 08:00 PM']the quesstion is moot----whatever the Church tells us, that is what we believe. PERIOD!!
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Ditto. We do not have a relativistic understanding of morality.

(Dairy, please see my post in the gay marriage thread.)

Edited September 19, 2005 by Socrates

[Guest JeffCR07]

Hi Dairy, I hope everything is going well! Again, I ask that you forgive my interest in what seems like nuances, and I pray that you will read what I have to say with a charitable spirit!

Now, regarding this:

[quote]If good always has to be implemented then it's not fair to evil. Maybe God doesn't want things to be fair for evil, that's one thing and sure I can see that in a way (though I don't agree with it). But fair is fair. Both sides must have equal opportunities, if one doesn't, then it's not fair. God doesn't artificially dichotomize fairnes between the state and Himself by changing the actual definition of fair into His form where it means only doing what God wants. (hmm) God might say it's fair that they did that, but it's not right.

Sort of what I mean...
When someone doesn't do God's will but does evil, it seems to me that evil played its role fair in God's eyes as they had a choice. Would you say this was fair?[/quote]

I think the big problem here is that you are thinking of evil as a thing, when it isn't a thing. Evil is only the privation of a good. So it isn't like you have a person doing good on the one hand and a person doing evil on the other. Rather, you have a person doing good on the one hand and a person failing to do good on the other.

This is important because it means that evil isn't a thing that can be treated unfairly. God can't be "unfair to evil" because evil doesn't exist in the existential sense.

That being seen, then it follows that for a thing to be "fair" in God's eyes really IS the same as for the thing to be just. That leads us back to my previous post.

In Christ,

Jeff