CatholicAndFanatical Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 lmao oh wow..lol thats hilarious. I can imagine what mood that broke you are one crazy individual.. God love ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Sep 28 2005, 03:14 PM']Dave First of all, just because its on a website doesn't give it credence. They also claim to have the secret to the End of the World. What exactly are this guys credentials aside from poor web design? Second of all I don't trust anything published in FrontPage. If this is satanic, then satan has the ability to manipulate sacred and blessed objects. I've never seen any evidence stating that. [right][snapback]740091[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I never said it did, hot stuff. All I did was tell you why positive fruits aren't necessarily indicative of a true apparition, and I described it using the explanation of a guy who described it better than I could. And what are you talking about, saying they claim they have the secret to the end of the world? As for Satan manipulating blessed objects, rosaries allegedly turning gold, by all indications seems to be a totally natural phenomenon. In closing, methinks thou protesteth too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 [quote name='Lounge Daddy' date='Sep 29 2005, 11:46 PM']ya - Dave, and I could say that "hypothetically speaking," the Church investigated Medjugorje and pronounced it to be legit definitions are fun to play with, aren't they? [right][snapback]741632[/snapback][/right] [/quote] If the Church were to pronounce Medjugorje to be legit, I'd be the first to believe it. My problem was with those who are so quick to pronounce an alleged apparition as legit merely on account of the good fruits that come about as a result. Heck, false apparitions such as Bayside and Garabandal have brought about conversions as well, but that doesn't make the apparitions themselves true! I've heard of people who believe in Medjugorje who claim that if the Vatican were to render a negative judgment on Medjugorje that they would NOT accept it. That's an essentially schismatic attitude right there. You need to realize that whatever the Church decides, we have to abide by it. If the Church decides positively, we're free to accept or reject it. But if the Church decides negatively, we MUST reject it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 [quote name='Dave' date='Sep 30 2005, 02:42 PM']I never said it did, hot stuff. All I did was tell you why positive fruits aren't necessarily indicative of a true apparition, and I described it using the explanation of a guy who described it better than I could. And what are you talking about, saying they claim they have the secret to the end of the world? As for Satan manipulating blessed objects, rosaries allegedly turning gold, by all indications seems to be a totally natural phenomenon. In closing, methinks thou protesteth too much. [right][snapback]742313[/snapback][/right] [/quote] If you go through the website, you'll see "Secrets to the End of the World". The point that I was making is that just because some ding dong has a bad web design program doesn't make him an expert. Is far as the rosaries, I've explained the majority of them but cannot explain the pure silver rosaries. Again I have personally held one (read my posts again) I don't protest too much. But throw something out there from a legitimate source and I'll respect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicAndFanatical Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Hi dave! and what website hot stuff has the secrets on it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Look at Dave's example at the top of the page. Follow the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dspen2005 Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 stay away from this supposed apparition until ruled and decided by the Church... shouldn't that be the position of a Catholic website??? what if these things are actually the work of Satan (i am not saying that they are, before people get in a tizzy.....). but i think it is more prudent of us to not recommend sites to people that support these types of things, until something definitive comes down to us from the Holy See. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 [quote name='hot stuff' date='Sep 30 2005, 03:50 PM']If you go through the website, you'll see "Secrets to the End of the World". The point that I was making is that just because some ding dong has a bad web design program doesn't make him an expert. [/quote] I figured you were talking about that. Just for the record, I never said I agree with everything on the site. The site also happens to have an "expose'" on the Legion of Christ. But I believe the allegations put forth on that were fabricated by other sources (and there are many). I never said the guy is an expert. But I've read lots of stuff on Medjugorje -- both positive and negative. And the negative stuff I read wasn't just on that particular site. That site basically helped corroborate what I'd heard already. And calling the webmaster a "ding-dong" and criticizing his web design abilities ... there's no reason for you to resort to ad hominems just because you can't defend the indefensible. Is far as the rosaries, I've explained the majority of them but cannot explain the pure silver rosaries. Again I have personally held one (read my posts again) [quote]For all we know, God could choose to work a miracle in spite of an apparition's falsity. Perhaps it would be His way of letting us know that all we really need to do is focus on Him and His Mother.[/quote] [quote]I don't protest too much. But throw something out there from a legitimate source and I'll respect it. [right][snapback]742317[/snapback][/right] [/quote] So just because you don't agree with everything the guy says and just because his web design skills aren't too your liking, you claim he's not a legitimate source. No offense, but that's rather dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 [quote name='CatholicAndFanatical' date='Sep 30 2005, 03:58 PM']Hi dave! [/quote] Hi Steve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted September 30, 2005 Share Posted September 30, 2005 Usually when someone looks to corroborate one's opinion, they look for a reputable source. This isn't one. It weakens your argument Dave when you quote from somewhere that even you don't believe. You used the source as an argument of "how it could be from Satan" and its wrong. The web design stuff is really more of me being a smart a** than anything. But there is credence to the idea that if its worth publishing, its worth publishing properly. I do look at coding for the simple reason that anyone can now publish. There is so much flotsam on the internet that is promoted as "truth" it is necessary sometimes to distinguish it from truly researched material. So yeah, when I see something written in FrontPage, it counts against it. [quote]So just because you don't agree with everything the guy says and just because his web design skills aren't too your liking, you claim he's not a legitimate source. No offense, but that's rather dumb.[/quote] No what's dumb is quoting a source without A. Knowing anything about the source you're quoting 2. Believing in what the guy says anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Daddy Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 [quote name='Dave' date='Sep 30 2005, 03:48 PM']I've heard of people who believe in Medjugorje who claim that if the Vatican were to render a negative judgment on Medjugorje that they would NOT accept it. That's an essentially schismatic attitude right there. You need to realize that whatever the Church decides, we have to abide by it. If the Church decides positively, we're free to accept or reject it. But if the Church decides negatively, we MUST reject it. [right][snapback]742316[/snapback][/right] [/quote] oh, i agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lounge Daddy Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 [quote name='dspen2005' date='Sep 30 2005, 04:27 PM']stay away from this supposed apparition until ruled and decided by the Church... shouldn't that be the position of a Catholic website??? what if these things are actually the work of Satan (i am not saying that they are, before people get in a tizzy.....). but i think it is more prudent of us to not recommend sites to people that support these types of things, until something definitive comes down to us from the Holy See. [right][snapback]742337[/snapback][/right] [/quote] and i agree with your first point, for sure and, dspen2005... welcome to the Catholic debate table what is brought here and the positions stated here do not reflect the offial Phatmass point-of-view necessarily ... this is where we place our personal opinions on the table this is also where we have an opportunity to see other views and maybe tweek our opinion, shift our world-view and grow as Catholic people sometimes i like to smoke a cigar after Phatmass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 This is an interesting argument.... I didn't know ANYONE had doubts about Medjugoria until last year, coming from another argument on this site. Personally, I want to go there just to see what all the fuss is about. I met a bishop who wouldn't sponser a trip to Medj (I like the abbrev,) but his only reason was collegiality. I've read the skepticisms, and am myself skeptical of such daily and prolonged locutions.... However, I've met people profoundly changed by pilgrimaging there.. I'm not talking Catholics who go and decide to pray more when they come home... I'm talking several vocations to the religious life, numerous PROFOUND conversions and 5$ rosaries turning into solid gold. Quite frankly, I'm baffled. I also think way too many people are way too passionate either way about the place. Believe or don't believe, it's your decision until... and even after.... the Church says something. I don't think they'll say anything for many years so we don't have to worry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 I like Matt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Conquers Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 I like metaphors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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