women and the workplace

[IcePrincessKRS]

Fine, work while they are in school. I'm just sayin', as a wife and mother, I have way too much stuff going on day to day to even think about getting a job. Most women don't NEED to work. All thats needed is something other than kids and chores to "accomplish". Some women knit, some paint, some garden, etc. But all you need is a hobby.

As one who has stayed home with her children I cannot fathom how any woman would willingly give up that time watching her children grow, teaching them new things, and just experiencing LIFE through and with her children unless it was absolutely necessary. I know several women who worked pre-children and once they had their baby, even when they were pregnant and intended to return to work, realized exactly what they would be giving up if they continued to work and chose to stay home instead. I know other women who went through alot of stress and heartache having to leave their children during the day to work. I can honestly say I do not know even ONE woman who was GLAD to return to work and leave her child with someone else. I just don't think its worth it unless it were a real financial need (I'm not poo-pooing moms who *need* to work, understand, its those who don't have to but do anyway that I don't get). You may say one thing, but until you're actually sitting in those shoes you will never truly know what its going to be like when you have kids.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='track2004' date='Sep 17 2005, 01:17 AM']  Men's brains are not designed any different than women's, though.  Most men, through culture, learn that they are to be physically active and are made to do more hard labor in their childhoods (mowing the lawn, trash, etc).  Women are taught to clean (I guess). 

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I am afraid that this is utter nonsense. If there is one thing that any married person of either sex can say with 100% assurance it is that men and women are wired differently.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='Sep 17 2005, 03:22 AM']Fine, work while they are in school. I'm just sayin', as a wife and mother, I have way too much stuff going on day to day to even think about getting a job. Most women don't NEED to work. All thats needed is something other than kids and chores to "accomplish". Some women knit, some paint, some garden, etc. But all you need is a hobby.

As one who has stayed home with her children I cannot fathom how any woman would willingly give up that time watching her children grow, teaching them new things, and just experiencing LIFE through and with her children unless it was absolutely necessary. I know several women who worked pre-children and once they had their baby, even when they were pregnant and intended to return to work, realized exactly what they would be giving up if they continued to work and chose to stay home instead. I know other women who went through alot of stress and heartache having to leave their children during the day to work. I can honestly say I do not know even ONE woman who was GLAD to return to work and leave her child with someone else. I just don't think its worth it unless it were a real financial need (I'm not poo-pooing moms who *need* to work, understand, its those who don't have to but do anyway that I don't get). You may say one thing, but until you're actually sitting in those shoes you will never truly know what its going to be like when you have kids.
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You are right.
As you know, my wife worked to put me through school. We had two kids at the time and it was a tremendous sacrifice for her to leave every day. She hated it. She quit working a week before graduation and has been home since. Proper order has been restored and everyone is better off as a result.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='popestpiusx' date='Sep 17 2005, 06:09 AM']I am afraid that this is utter nonsense.  If there is one thing that any married person of either sex can say with 100% assurance it is that men and women are wired differently.
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I'm not even married and I can assent to this. There are definite differences, and it goes much deeper than differences between personalities. We're complementary.


(oh, and Norseman, my company doesn't offer tuition reimbursement. It's a small company, and times for newspapers have been tight lately. They tell us we're doing well to have health insurance. I have my thoughts about that ... )

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Sep 17 2005, 06:20 AM']I'm not even married and I can assent to this. There are definite differences, and it goes much deeper than differences between personalities. We're complementary.
(oh, and Norseman, my company doesn't offer tuition reimbursement. It's a small company, and times for newspapers have been tight lately. They tell us we're doing well to have health insurance. I have my thoughts about that ... )
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I have an endless mound of data that I've gathered which demonstrates this point. *is tempted to troll*

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='track2004' date='Sep 17 2005, 12:17 AM']Most men, through culture, learn that they are to be physically active and are made to do more hard labor in their childhoods (mowing the lawn, trash, etc).  Women are taught to clean (I guess). [right][snapback]726711[/snapback][/right]
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You don't have any children, do you?

I have three: a daughter and two sons. When my daughter was little, she made everything into dollies-- everything. She would sit down to color and instead of coloring, she would take the crayons and use them as "little people" making up little stories with them. Did I say, "Oh, honey, you're a little girl. Why don't you sit here and nurture these crayons for a while?" Uh, no.

When my older son started being interested in the crayons, he turned them into guns. Did I tell him to do this? No. We don't have any guns, my husband's not a hunter etc. In fact, I was not at all thrilled about this. But everything becomes a gun-- crayons, straws, pencils, Barbie dolls-- everything.

Once when my two older children were playing a game together, I spied to see what they would play together. They played orphan babies. I thought, "Oh, isn't that sweet. Now my son will play some sort of nurturing game." The game went like this: My daughter "discovered" a group of abandoned stuffed animal and doll children. So, she set up an orphanage. My son "learned" that their parents had been killed by a robber. He took one of the dolls, tied a superhero cape to it's back and set off to avenge their deaths. Was that learned? I don't think so. It's just how they are wired to enjoy playing.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I'm not touchin' this one.
















: Everyone knows where I stand, I think.

[toledo_jesus]

I'm a psych major too, and the more I learn the more convinced I am that Nature V. Nurture is a spectrum that you fall on, rather than a versus situation. Some things are inherent, others learned. I tend to think more behaviors can be explained by the nurture end of the spectrum. Unfortunately, there is no magic bullet here to explain everything. [u]Sometimes[/u] [u]somethings[/u] happen [u]someways[/u], and [u]sometimes[/u] [u]somethings[/u] happen [u]some other ways[/u]. It's all very vague.

People are finding out that little boys and girls relate to each other differently. I took a psych of women course that outlined in great detail the ways that women are different from men. Communication styles, perception, organizational skills...and so on.

The sooner we stop pretending in academica that men and women are interchangeable organisms with different genitalia, the better.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='track2004' date='Sep 17 2005, 12:17 AM']Don John.

What did you mean by saying men have "more grey matter"?  On average yes they do because their heads are bigger so their brains are bigger, but I don't get what you mean by that.  Yes women are designed to carry and nurse a baby.  I can't debate that.  We have a uterus, we have mammory glands.  Men's brains are not designed any different than women's, though.  Most men, through culture, learn that they are to be physically active and are made to do more hard labor in their childhoods (mowing the lawn, trash, etc).  Women are taught to clean (I guess).  By the time men and women get to adulthood they should both be able to do just about anything.  Granted, I am only 5'2", so I can't reach much stuff and I can't lift really heavy things, that's part of my anatomy not my brain.  There are guys can be built strong or weak, as can women.  The processor/ RAM analogy also kinda confuses me for two reasons, 1)  I don't know much about compys and 2) I can think as quickly as a guy and guys can be just as methodical as I can.  It's not hard wired, it, like the physical abilities, varries from person to person.

PSPX

I just said it because it fit and you brought up the fact that you helped raise kids.  Neither really help or hurt our arguments, but they are the experiences we've had personally.
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No men have more grey matter in precentage to the mass of there brians not just over all, women have more white matter ( which is used for connecting areas) asa precentage to the size of there brains, in both cases it is significantly more. And no we are not talking about exceptions we are talking about the rule. The rule is what must be the overarching factor when discussing things like family. It is telling that when women reacha certian muscle mass the stop menstrating. women are not suppose to be like men.

[track2004]

HSMom,

I understand that boys tend to like 'boy toys' and girls tend to like dolls and the like, but this is not a rule. When my family went to McNasty's when my sister and I were (too) young (to realize how gross it is) I got the happy meal with the "boy toy" (ie matchbox car, action figure, etc) and my sister got the "girl toy" (ie barbie, polly pocket, etc). Not every women is going to be content with raising a family. Not every women wants a job. It's a personal choice that women should be allowed to make for themselves.

[track2004]

Toledo

I agree that there are differences between guys and girls. I just don't think that those differences limit women to staying at home and raising kids. The more we focus on similarities between the sexes instead of differences the more we can realize we're really pretty much the same.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='track2004' date='Sep 17 2005, 01:06 PM']Toledo

I agree that there are differences between guys and girls.  I just don't think that those differences limit women to staying at home and raising kids.  [b]The more we focus on similarities between the sexes instead of differences the more we can realize we're really pretty much the same.[/b]
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But we're not the same. that's the point. The differences don't limit women anymore, but a wife and mother is not the same as a single childless woman. Mothers are restricted in what they can do, because children come first, before career. Fathers are not bound as such. They can work all nine months of a pregnancy, and the months afterwards. I am currently also taking a Women in Politics class, and the material includes some of the reasons women were barred from the workplace. One of them was childbearing, a practical concern that anyone who invests money in a female employee will have to look at.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Sep 17 2005, 12:21 PM']Mothers are restricted in what they can do, because children come first, before career.  Fathers are not bound as such.  [right][snapback]727031[/snapback][/right]
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While I agree with you, Toledo... I must clarify that men are bound in that they too must put their families before their careers. A job is a means to an end-- providing for the family. A man shouldn't put career ambitions ahead of the good of the family. Oftentimes men (and women, too) think that furthering their careers-- working long hours, travelling etc. is better for the family. I would say that this is sometimes true. But oftentimes it is the result of pride and the desire to "be" something in the workplace rather than "be" someone (ie Daddy) at home.

[avemaria40]

My mom worked, then took time off when my sister was born and i was about 3 and she started working again when my little bro was in school she works right now and she's the best mom! And my dad also works, but he always makes time to be w/the fam

[Socrates]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 17 2005, 07:46 AM']You don't have any children, do you?

My daughter "discovered" a group of abandoned stuffed animal and doll children. So, she set up an orphanage. My son "learned" that their parents had been killed by a robber. He took one of the dolls, tied a superhero cape to it's back and set off to avenge their deaths.
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. . . And thus Batman begins! See you've got a little Batman on your hands! Too cute!