women and the workplace

[Aloysius]

my future wife might very well end up as a writer... that'd be cool. or perhaps she'll be a teacher of local children as well as our own, she could do that right out of the house... that'd be neat.

I'm going to work my butt off to attempt to preserve her from the aweful fate of getting a job and be dependant on wage-earning.

I want to create a whole world of freedom for her to cultivate that beautiful sacred mind and soul of hers, to raise our family ( though I don't want her hogging all the precious family time!!! even the unpleasant family time and the dingy work of it all ), and do what she pleases.

I think these were the original motivations, and then they spewed out of control into a negation of not ALLOWING the women to do stuff. it's not about restrictions, it's about opening up freedom the world could never even imagine.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Sep 16 2005, 02:52 PM']my future wife might very well end up as a writer... that'd be cool.  or perhaps she'll be a teacher of local children as well as our own, she could do that right out of the house... that'd be neat.

I'm going to work my butt off to attempt to preserve her from the aweful fate of getting a job and be dependant on wage-earning.

I want to create a whole world of freedom for her to cultivate that beautiful sacred mind and soul of hers, to raise our family ( though I don't want her hogging all the precious family time!!! even the unpleasant family time and the dingy work of it all ), and do what she pleases.

I think these were the original motivations, and then they spewed out of control into a negation of not ALLOWING the women to do stuff.  it's not about restrictions, it's about opening up freedom the world could never even imagine.
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i like your way of looking at things. you are going to make an awesome husband!

[Aloysius]

thank you! that means a lot to me. I can only hope and pray that you are right!

[Sojourner]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 16 2005, 12:09 PM']I had a college professor ask us if any of us were going to be stay at home moms. I raised my hand and said, "yes." He got all snotty and said, "Isn't that a little unrealistic?"

He was a total butthat...
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[Anastasia13]

I heard someone saying that Proverbs 31 describes a woman who at some time works, but doens't necessarily do all those things at once.

My parents made an agreement about such things when they got married that they would do whatever it took to get through life together but I still think that the ideal is with the wife being more the nurturer and home maker and the husband the provider or something kind of like that even if they both work. I object to the assumption that every woman has that as one may be single, widowed, divorced, or have a husband who is temporarily or permanently disabled or there may be other home expenses which a boss might not know about and I think that the assumption that that ideal was necessarily the reality has in the past at least inhibited women's ability to work for a fair and decent wage with fair opportunity for advancement.

[quote name='Pope John Paul II']Therefore the Church gives thanks for each and every woman: for mothers. for sisters for wives; for women consecrated to God in virginity; for women dedicated to the many human beings who await the gratuitous love of another person; for women who watch over the human persons in the family, which is the fundamental sign of the human community; for women who work professionally, and who at times are burdened by a great social responsibility; for "perfect" women and for "weak" women--for all women as they have come forth from the heart of God in all the beauty and richness of their femininity; as they have been embraced by his eternal love; as, together with men, they are pilgrims on this earth, which is the temporal "homeland" of all people and is transformed sometimes into a "valley of tears"; as they assume, together with men, a common responsibility for the destiny of humanity according to daily necessities and according to that definitive destiny which the human family has in God himself, in the bosom of the ineffable Trinity.[/quote]
[url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2MULIE.HTM"]http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2MULIE.HTM[/url]

Edited September 16, 2005 by Light and Truth

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Sep 16 2005, 02:34 AM']i asked this question in the men who act like women, women who act like men thread, but got no response.  so I will ask it here.

Should women go into the workplace?  We all know that they can and do, but should they?  What about having high-ranking jobs, such as a CEO, manager, or politician?

In an agrarian society, men and women worked together on a farm to raise children.  Women would do mostly indoor things, like cooking, cleaning, raising children, and light work (tending to livestock, etc).  Men would do heavy outdoor things, like farming, and they also represented the whole family in civic/religious life.

Now, women are doing more things outside the home, like voting, working in jobs other than teaching, social work, nursing and clerical stuff, and some are making more money than their husbands.

Personally, I think that women deserve equal opportunities in the workplace, and they deserve job options that are conducive to raising a family (i.e. maternity leave, day care and flexible hours).  I am unmarried, about to graduate school and I want to become a news reporter.  I am open to changing things around if I choose to get married, and staying at home or going part time.  But that isn't something I have to deal with now.

also, on the other side of the spectrum, what do you think about stay at home dads?
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Any woman who works outside the home really has two jobs, the one she gets paid for and the one she doesn't. The second job starts the moment she walks in the door from the paid job and usually lasts until bedtime.

[Sojourner]

On a serious note ... this is a subject I've given quite a bit of thought to, but from a slightly different perspective. Growing up, the predominant image I had of womanhood was mothers who stayed home with their children. That's what my own mother did, as did most of her close friends. The women we knew who worked were always recipients of our pity .. "poor woman, she [i]has[/i] to work" because her husband doesn't make enough, or she's single, or whatever. In other words, the end all, be all of femininity was to get married, have children, and stay home with them.

Well, I'm almost 29 now, and that has yet to happen for me, so naturally I've had moments over the years where I've questioned my purpose in life, particularly at the points were I've questioned whether I'd EVER get married. If I can't reach the "ideal" of femininity -- i.e., a husband and family -- am I somehow less as a woman?

When I first started exploring Catholic teaching, and came across the Theology of the Body, it was like a breath of fresh air ... fantastically refreshing. I recently read a paper by John Crosby called [url="http://www.geocities.com/johnaugus/crosby.html"]The Mystery of Fair Love[/url] which articulates what I found quite well:

[quote]John Paul thinks that it is the maternal vocation of woman, whereby she can receive a new human being into herself, that disposes her to see the person in others. He says that men need to learn this sensitivity to persons from women. He thinks that all the regions of human life, including the life of the Church, will be vastly enriched when the "genius of woman" makes itself much more strongly felt within them. This is why he encourages women to become more present with their femininity in society and in the Church. Of course, in accordance with the whole Catholic tradition, he reminds women that their contributions to society and the Church should not be made at the expense of their vocation to maternity. Yet he brings something new out of this tradition by saying that the maternal vocation should not be lived at the expense of these contributions. [b]He wants Catholic women to be first of all wives and mothers, but then also to be bearers of the "genius of woman" in the contemporary world. [/b][/quote]

Even if I've not given birth to a child, I still have maternal qualities that I bring to whatever I do. As a reporter, I find those qualities lead me to be more attracted to feature stories about people than my male coworker is. I love being able to connect with people in a personal way -- those types of interactions feed my soul, and I like to think I'm able to show something of the person in some of these stories. I think broadening my view of what it means to be "woman" has helped me understand myself better, and that understanding helps me to better use my gifts in my work and in other relationships.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Sep 16 2005, 01:49 PM']
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[Kilroy the Ninja]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Sep 16 2005, 12:09 PM']I had a college professor ask us if any of us were going to be stay at home moms. I raised my hand and said, "yes." He got all snotty and said, "Isn't that a little unrealistic?"

He was a total butthat...
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You know my favorite reply to the question of "why are you getting your degree?" is "Because I can".


Nobody is prepared for someone who simply wants to be educated, but doesn't have designs on a "career" based on that education.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Sep 16 2005, 02:30 PM']You know my favorite reply to the question of "why are you getting your degree?" is    "Because I can".
Nobody is prepared for someone who simply wants to be educated, but doesn't have designs on a "career" based on that education.
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[Carrie]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Sep 16 2005, 04:30 PM']"Because I can".

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We should be able to use that line for anything men question us on.

Kidding! Just kidding! (before the men revolt and decide to behead me).

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Kilroy the Ninja' date='Sep 16 2005, 02:30 PM']You know my favorite reply to the question of "why are you getting your degree?" is    "Because I can".
Nobody is prepared for someone who simply wants to be educated, but doesn't have designs on a "career" based on that education.
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Not many people can afford to do that ... people take out so much in loans these days that they have to work to pay the bills.

If I could afford to go to school and not have to work based on it, I'd be in school for a long, long time. I'd get to buy crayons every fall, with the little sharpener in the back, and new folders, and protractors, and all sorts of stuff.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Sep 16 2005, 04:06 PM']Even if I've not given birth to a child, I still have maternal qualities that I bring to whatever I do. As a reporter, I find those qualities lead me to be more attracted to feature stories about people than my male coworker is. I love being able to connect with people in a personal way -- those types of interactions feed my soul, and I like to think I'm able to show something of the person in some of these stories. I think broadening my view of what it means to be "woman" has helped me understand myself better, and that understanding helps me to better use my gifts in my work and in other relationships.
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Who do you report for? I am finishing my BA in december and will be looking to start work in january. wanna give me a job?

I tend to like writing hard news stories more than features

[Sojourner]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Sep 16 2005, 02:49 PM']Who do you report for?  I am finishing my BA in december and will be looking to start work in january.  wanna give me a job?

I tend to like writing hard news stories more than features
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I'll PM you.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='Sojourner' date='Sep 16 2005, 02:45 PM']Not many people can afford to do that ... people take out so much in loans these days that they have to work to pay the bills.

If I could afford to go to school and not have to work based on it, I'd be in school for a long, long time. I'd get to buy crayons every fall, with the little sharpener in the back, and new folders, and protractors, and all sorts of stuff.
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sojourner I don't know it's hard for me to imagine how people canno afford it if we can. Kilroy doesn't work and I am a catholicschool teacher. Cashiers at walmart make as much as me. She has gotten scholarships and government grants, it can be done.