Women...

[Oik]

[quote]Installed Acolyte

[i]Question from on 09-22-2004:[/i] 

How does one become an installed Acolyte and who is eligiable to do so? I have been an altar server for many years and am currently the head of altar serving in my parish. 

[i]Answer by Colin B. Donovan, STL on 10-01-2004:[/i] 

Historically, the ministry of Acolyte was one of the four minor orders. From lowest rank to highest, they are Porter, Lector, Exorcist and Acolyte. In addition four major orders were recognized, Sub-Deacon, Deacon, Priest and Bishop. These Orders were all found in the early Church, as the Church historian Eusebius of Caesaria notes in his Church History. It also seems that in addition to being transitional to higher orders, some men were ordained into the lesser orders permanently.
Medieval theologians debated which of these orders were sacraments, and which were sacramental, and thus, which were of apostolic origin and which were of ecclesiastical origin. The judgment of the greatest theologians, such as St. Thomas Aquinas, and of Councils, such as Florence and Trent, was that the Orders of Bishop, Priest and Deacon constitute the Sacrament of Orders, and thus are of apostolic origin, and that the others are sacramentals (sacrament-like) instituted by the Church to assist the higher orders. In the re-union Council of Lyons, the Greeks were obliged to restore some of the minor orders they had ceased to practice, but their lack in the already ordained did not effect the validity of the Orders of Deacon, Priest and Bishop.

After Trent and before Vatican II, the four minor orders and the major order of the subdiaconate were received only by those in transition to the diaconate and priesthood. Vatican II restored the possibility of the permanent diaconate, and in 1972 Paul VI re-organized the minor orders in his apostolic letter Ministeria Quaedam. He reduced the number of orders preceeding Holy Orders, now calling them ministries, to those of lector and acolyte. He thus suppressed the orders of porter, exorcist and subdeacon in the Latin Church.

[b]Regarding who is eligible to be instituted into the ministries of Lector and Acolyte, it is only men.[/b] In general, bishops still reserve these ministries to candidates for Holy Orders, with a couple exceptions, but you can certainly ask your bishop whether it wouldn't be fitting that the person responsible for training servers receive a more permanent institution himself. I know of at least one cathedral whose lay Master of Ceremonies has been instituted Acolyte. The other general requirements are contained at the end of the Pope's document.

[/quote]

Proud2BCatholic,

It seems that there are many who use the term "lector" loosely. This, as you now can see, has caused a lot of confusion in terminology. A lector is installed and is open only to men. Women may be deputed to be readers.

In your case, there maybe training and scheduling and even practice. There may even be a blessing of your task. It is not however, an installation.

So, while it is the case that many parishes have taken up this terminology, it is used only to denote a specific character of your action. For reasons specific to the parish and according to your priest, you have been or are allowed to perform certain tasks proper to a lector. Simply, you have been deputed and not installed.

Hope this helps.
May God Bless You,
Chelsea

[url="http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=412375&Forums=0&Experts=0&Days=2004&Author=&Keyword=lector&pgnu=1&groupnum=0&record_bookmark=18&ORDER_BY_TXT=ORDER+BY+ReplyDate+DESC&start_at="]Link to Source: EWTN Q and A[/url]

Edited September 22, 2005 by Oik

[Ora et Labora]

Thats great Oik!

I don’t really like idea of alter girls, because, personally, I think the reason there are alter boys is so they could learn from a priest how the mass is held, how to do it, what words to say....its almost like an apprentice for the priest. And having alter girls is almost saying that they can be priests someday! It doesn’t make sense.

[Socrates]

I find women lectors annoying.

[photosynthesis]

[quote name='Socrates' date='Sep 22 2005, 07:32 PM']I find women lectors annoying.
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there are no women lectors, only women readers.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='photosynthesis' date='Sep 23 2005, 03:49 AM']there are no women lectors, only women readers.
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I find women readers annoying.

[zabbazooey]

I don't ever think I could be a reader because I stutter when I try to read out loud and I can't help but stumble over the words....

[Noel's angel]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' date='Sep 22 2005, 08:24 PM']Thats great Oik!

I don’t really like idea of alter girls, because, personally, I think the reason there are alter boys is so they could learn from a priest how the mass is held, how to do it, what words to say....its almost like an apprentice for the priest. And having alter girls is almost saying that they can be priests someday! It doesn’t make sense.
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[/quote]

You know what I fins annoying? Popele that spell 'altar' incorectly :

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' date='Sep 23 2005, 12:33 PM']I find women readers annoying.
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Yup.

Though I have not seen one since my grandfather's funeral last spring. Of course I have only been to the Novus Ordo once since then and that was at Christendom where they are not used.

[popestpiusx]

N.B.

The minor orders are no longer suppressed. The traditional orders still use them.

[socalscout]

How do women readers, lectors, whatever, or female Altar Servers have any impact on the Liturgy and your presence there?

[Aloysius]

they change the ambiance of the altar, the perception we have of what is going on up there and the nature and distinction of man and woman within the liturgical setting. it affects many deep rich symbolism in a detrimental way. the altar boy should be sort of like the priest's apprentice. the priest represents Christ the groom and other ministers on the altar ought to be like groomsmen, the deacon like a best man. it ought to project the image of the sex that is proactive in the natural order rather than receptive (as the role of the congregation is more receptive)

there are many deep and rich symbolisms that are gravely distorted when we destroy the age old tradition (which is still held in the eastern churches) of only allowing ordained persons as well as those with the possibility of being ordained (for females there is an absolute impossibility) of being on the altar.

btw, pspx was not necesarily saying he avoids novus ordos where girls are used, he simply goes to the tridentine rite anyway and as such has no experience with this modernist innovation.

anyway, the blurring of the distinction between priest and laity is troublesome at best, dangerous at worst. we believe how we worship and we worship how we believe, as such the liturgy ought to project a belief in the distinction between the roles of the sexes and a distinction between the roles of the ordained and the laity.

[socalscout]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Sep 25 2005, 03:23 AM']they change the ambiance of the altar, the perception we have of what is going on up there and the nature and distinction of man and woman within the liturgical setting.  it affects many deep rich symbolism in a detrimental way.  the altar boy should be sort of like the priest's apprentice.  the priest represents Christ the groom and other ministers on the altar ought to be like groomsmen, the deacon like a best man.  it ought to project the image of the sex that is proactive in the natural order rather than receptive (as the role of the congregation is more receptive)

there are many deep and rich symbolisms that are gravely distorted when we destroy the age old tradition (which is still held in the eastern churches) of only allowing ordained persons as well as those with the possibility of being ordained (for females there is an absolute impossibility) of being on the altar.

btw, pspx was not necesarily saying he avoids novus ordos where girls are used, he simply goes to the tridentine rite anyway and as such has no experience with this modernist innovation.

anyway, the blurring of the distinction between priest and laity is troublesome at best, dangerous at worst.  we believe how we worship and we worship how we believe, as such the liturgy ought to project a belief in the distinction between the roles of the sexes and a distinction between the roles of the ordained and the laity.
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[/quote]

Does the Church disallow it?

[socalscout]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Sep 25 2005, 03:23 AM']they change the ambiance of the altar, the perception we have of what is going on up there and the nature and distinction of man and woman within the liturgical setting.  it affects many deep rich symbolism in a detrimental way.  the altar boy should be sort of like the priest's apprentice.  the priest represents Christ the groom and other ministers on the altar ought to be like groomsmen, the deacon like a best man.  it ought to project the image of the sex that is proactive in the natural order rather than receptive (as the role of the congregation is more receptive)

there are many deep and rich symbolisms that are gravely distorted when we destroy the age old tradition (which is still held in the eastern churches) of only allowing ordained persons as well as those with the possibility of being ordained (for females there is an absolute impossibility) of being on the altar.

btw, pspx was not necesarily saying he avoids novus ordos where girls are used, he simply goes to the tridentine rite anyway and as such has no experience with this modernist innovation.

anyway, the blurring of the distinction between priest and laity is troublesome at best, dangerous at worst.  we believe how we worship and we worship how we believe, as such the liturgy ought to project a belief in the distinction between the roles of the sexes and a distinction between the roles of the ordained and the laity.
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[/quote]

Does the Church disallow it or condemn it? Are these rogue pastors and Bishops allowing females approach the Altar?

If the Church allows it then yours, as well as the others, is just opinion and when the laity imposes their opinion on others it is "troublesome at best, dangerous at worst".

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Aloysius' date='Sep 25 2005, 05:23 AM']

btw, pspx was not necesarily saying he avoids novus ordos where girls are used, he simply goes to the tridentine rite anyway and as such has no experience with this modernist innovation.

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Clarification:

Though it is true that I (almost) exclusively attend the Tridentine Mass, it is incorrect to say that I have "no experience with this modernist innovation". I experienced this modernist innovation (as well as numerous others) for the first 24 years of my life. In fact, they helped to spark my initial interest in the Tridentine Mass (which now goes well beyond mere 'avoiding abuse').

[Sarah_JC]

Is this an American Catholic thing? I mean, I was on pilgrimage with a Polish priest, and I sang the psalm everyday. Mainly because I'm the only one brave/stupid enough to volunteer for the sake of singing being liturgically better than speaking. But as for men being liturically better than women? Only on phatmass has anyone told me this.

I accept that men, standing in persona Christi must be men...
But the lector isn't standing in persona anything.

I'm proud to add that doing things in this way, such as in our Lifeteen Mass, we now have more boys than girls coming to mass. Not that girls have stopped going, we just have a HUGE amount of young men coming.