Anastasia13 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Sep 13 2005, 10:57 PM']In the words of Pope Pius XII: "...The Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul to heavenly glory" In other words Mary was taken up into heaven at the end of her life.[right][snapback]722602[/snapback][/right][/quote] I do not recall any mention of this in scripture and thus this would also requite a debate on authority. The assumption of Mary holds little interest for me. [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Sep 13 2005, 10:57 PM']Essentially that the Eucharist in the Mass is the re-presentation of Christ's once and for all Sacrifice on Calvary. The Mass is a Sacrifice, not a mere ceremony in which we "remember" what Christ did, rather we encounter and are drawn into that very same Sacrifice of Calvary which is truly made present in the Mass.[right][snapback]722602[/snapback][/right][/quote] I still don't quite grasp that and what then was the first pre-crucifixion one? co-redemtrix, the only good part to discuss would be part 3 "Thirdly, Mary is our Advocate for people of God, in that she takes the petitions of her earthly children, especially in times of difficulties, and brings them through her maternal intercession before her Son and our Lord Jesus." merely as a result of my views that our mediator/avocate is Jesus for us to God the Father. I assume that this would then lead to either a debate on the authority of the Catholic Church or Catholic but not protestant scripture? [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Sep 13 2005, 10:57 PM']Seems like you are already debating it. I haven't stated my position, but it is the same as the Church's teachings. And I'd say NFP is categorically different from artificial contraception and ought not be called contraception at all; this would likely be part of the debate.[right][snapback]722602[/snapback][/right][/quote] I would say that it has more to do with how it is used and it would be interesting if one of the non-abortive birthcontrol pills could be used for some other medical reason. [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Sep 13 2005, 10:57 PM']I was thinking basically Protestant Ecclesiology vs. Catholic.[right][snapback]722602[/snapback][/right][/quote] I am not very familiar with this and do not understand what issues are involved. Edited September 14, 2005 by Light and Truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 pick one, or we'll have to just debate all of them at once, and that could get messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 Can you give me a link or something so I can know what the views on contraceptives are and tell me how that relates to assume that certain individuals should then for the sake of not having children sacrifice marriage, or that several years is not too long for a husband and wife to not have sex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argent_paladin Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I will debate with you perhaps the greatest and most intricate subject in all of theology: reconciling grace and free will. "[b]Whence does efficacious grace (gratia efficax), which includes in its very concept the actual free consent of the will, derive its infallible effect; and how is it that, in spite of the infallible efficacy of grace, the freedom of the will is not impaired?[/b] It is evident that, in every attempt to solve this difficult problem, Catholic theologians must safeguard two principles: first, the supremacy and causality of grace (against Pelagianism and Semipelagianism), and second, the unimpaired freedom of consent in the will (against early Protestantism and Jansenism). For both these principles are dogmas of the Church, clearly and emphatically defined by the Council of Trent. " But I will only defend it if I may take the Thomist position of Ibanez: starting with the preeminence of grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) Or we could debate the need of sacrimental confession for what the Catholic Church views as mortal sins? Including of course the justification for the consequence of failure to seek the sacriment of confession for them preceding death and why these are "mortal sins." Edited September 14, 2005 by Light and Truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamweaver Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 To bring up the red vs green debate up again, what about certain albinos which God has given red eyes too? Are they superior to green-eyed folks? I still state my position that green is superior. Green is the color of life (plants). Everything, well, MOST every form of life depends on plants in some way or another. Though red is the color of blood, blood is usually only shown in certain instances. Withdrawls for blood tests, accidents, and violence. Violence! War! Bloodshed! Not good things in book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='Light and Truth' date='Sep 14 2005, 12:19 AM']Can you give me a link or something so I can know what the views on contraceptives are and tell me how that relates to assume that certain individuals should then for the sake of not having children sacrifice marriage, or that several years is not too long for a husband and wife to not have sex? [right][snapback]722622[/snapback][/right] [/quote] [url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/...e-vitae_en.html[/url] The latter part of your question appears to relate to personal discernment more than to explicit Church teaching. I'd rather debate formal teachings of the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='Dreamweaver' date='Sep 13 2005, 11:35 PM']To bring up the red vs green debate up again, what about certain albinos which God has given red eyes too? Are they superior to green-eyed folks? I still state my position that green is superior. Green is the color of life (plants). Everything, well, MOST every form of life depends on plants in some way or another. Though red is the color of blood, blood is usually only shown in certain instances. Withdrawls for blood tests, accidents, and violence. Violence! War! Bloodshed! Not good things in book. [right][snapback]722629[/snapback][/right] [/quote] It is not a matter of whether albinos are better, only whether the color of their eyes is better or not. Red is the color of love, passion-and that does not necessarily mean always lust, strawberries which supposedly make your teeth look whiter. It is the color of blood which is necessary for the sustaining of life. Fresh oxygenated life-sustaining blood is dark red and gives color to one's face. Blood was shed so that you might life eternally. It was red lambs blood in the first passover where God spared the Israelites. In Japan, red is the color of purity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Sep 13 2005, 11:36 PM'][url="http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html"]http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/...e-vitae_en.html[/url][right][snapback]722631[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I remember looking at that before. Long and hard to understand. I can give you an answer on it in a week I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='Light and Truth' date='Sep 14 2005, 12:48 AM'] I remember looking at that before. Long and hard to understand. I can give you an answer on it in a week I think. [right][snapback]722638[/snapback][/right] [/quote] I look forward to that. I hope we end up having a fun and mutually beneficial debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' date='Sep 13 2005, 10:57 PM']Essentially that the Eucharist in the Mass is the re-presentation of Christ's once and for all Sacrifice on Calvary. The Mass is a Sacrifice, not a mere ceremony in which we "remember" what Christ did, rather we encounter and are drawn into that very same Sacrifice of Calvary which is truly made present in the Mass.[right][snapback]722602[/snapback][/right][/quote] Is there a brief explanation of this somewhere I could read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='Light and Truth' date='Sep 14 2005, 12:54 AM']Is there a brief explanation of this somewhere I could read? [right][snapback]722643[/snapback][/right] [/quote] Here is a QA thing: [url="http://www.cin.org/users/james/questions/q106.htm"]http://www.cin.org/users/james/questions/q106.htm[/url] Here is a little article that covers a few things: [url="http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0109sbs.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0109sbs.asp[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted September 14, 2005 Author Share Posted September 14, 2005 [quote name='argent_paladin' date='Sep 14 2005, 12:22 AM']I will debate with you perhaps the greatest and most intricate subject in all of theology: reconciling grace and free will. "[b]Whence does efficacious grace (gratia efficax), which includes in its very concept the actual free consent of the will, derive its infallible effect; and how is it that, in spite of the infallible efficacy of grace, the freedom of the will is not impaired?[/b] It is evident that, in every attempt to solve this difficult problem, Catholic theologians must safeguard two principles: first, the supremacy and causality of grace (against Pelagianism and Semipelagianism), and second, the unimpaired freedom of consent in the will (against early Protestantism and Jansenism). For both these principles are dogmas of the Church, clearly and emphatically defined by the Council of Trent. " But I will only defend it if I may take the Thomist position of Ibanez: starting with the preeminence of grace. [right][snapback]722623[/snapback][/right] [/quote] [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=39637&hl="]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=39637&hl=[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted September 14, 2005 Share Posted September 14, 2005 I like argents topic. Or one could debate angelic predestination. That would be a good time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 (edited) *contemplating how much I really care about proposed topic* Edited September 17, 2005 by Light and Truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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